THE IUP Football Thread

[IUPbigINDIANS]

IUP actually did have big gates last year.

Kutztown - 5,000
Shepherd - 6,367
Gannon - 5,392
California - 4,821
Edinboro - 3,592


Now, of course, 'big gates' and 'good crowds' are very different items.

The Kutztown game had the most engaged crowd I've seen at Miller in probably (at least) a decade. The big 'pick 6' in the second half was, by Miller standards, an eruption.

I think the crowd was ready to go the following week, but, well, that got squashed quickly after halftime.

The Gannon game ... IUP put up a total dud in front of the Homecoming crowd. The team looked disinterested (and barely won).

The next game ... the one that went from a dropped, wide-open TD and a blowout to, well, we know the ending ... Cal had a far better, engaged crowd than IUP.

The final home game: which was more dead ... the team or the crowd?


I will say the road crowd at SRU was electric. It was fairly large and all sat together (unlike what happens at Miller).


Que the yearly rant, I suppose, but the Miller atmosphere (inside the stadium) is just so bad. The tailgate area seems to rock among the older crowd. They fixed that aspect. However, too many people stay out there during the game. They need to enforce what PSU and others do: When the ball kicks off there is no tailgating allowed.

The other problem IUP has had since allowing tailgating is far too many people go back out at halftime and never come back inside. Many of those games listed above look like good gates on paper, but the second half numbers were decimated. Follow the D1 path and sell beer inside the stadium. This would eliminate the masses leaving (or not coming in at all).

The California debacle was the perfect example. The home side was half empty in the second half. When IUP needed a rally ... that game was essentially being played at Adamson as Cal's crowd and band completely took over. And, of course, our band left at halftime (i.e. the infamous Dubois trip). That single game summed up the Miller Stadium experience in so many ways.

What's left of the band continued to be a non-factor and largely a laughing stock among the fan-base. The kids work hard and do what they're told. Taking the third quarter off is still baffling.

They introduced an on-field DJ last year. He was stationed right beside the band, however, and the DJ and band would continuously play at the same time.

Aside from the opener, I'm not sure IUP cashed in very well on the post-Covid, get-me-out-of-the-house crowd very well. The same team that went to Slippery Rock, on its Homecoming in front a massive crowd, and literally beat the pi$$ out them ... could barely beat the BOOM SQUAD inside Miller.

That was a great road team last year. It was also somehow a 2-3 home team (that was real close to an 0-5 home team).

[Fightingscot82]

Playing a D3 makes sense if you're a lower-tier D2 looking to get a win to make yourself feel good. Millersville tried it a few years ago, but lost.

But for the better D2s, there is nothing to gain. It's only another opportunity to get someone injured. The "added" gate won't do much for the bottom line and it's not like beating Thiel 75-0 would suddenly make 5,000 people want to show up to see IUP-Mercyhurst in a few weeks.

It's a safety issue the other way, too. If you're Juanita or Grove City or Waynesburg, would you bring your guys to IUP? For what?

Then why is Grand Valley playing D3 schools?

[Matt Burglund]

Then why is Grand Valley playing D3 schools?

Apples and oranges.

GVSU draws a crowd no matter the opponent. IUP does not.
GVSU has the money to fly in a D3 from California. IUP does not.

And, the fact the game is Week 3 means GVSU does not have to begin its training camp any earlier. That's the rub for having a Week One opening. If IUP were to schedule a game, home or away, they'd have to bring in the team a week earlier than planned, put up 100 or so players in campus housing and feed them, and the team has to pay for that. The cost for it would not be offset by the gate from 1,500 people showing up to watch them pummel Allegheny College.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Apples and oranges.

GVSU draws a crowd no matter the opponent. IUP does not.
GVSU has the money to fly in a D3 from California. IUP does not.

And, the fact the game is Week 3 means GVSU does not have to begin its training camp any earlier. That's the rub for having a Week One opening. If IUP were to schedule a game, home or away, they'd have to bring in the team a week earlier than planned, put up 100 or so players in campus housing and feed them, and the team has to pay for that. The cost for it would not be offset by the gate from 1,500 people showing up to watch them pummel Allegheny College.

It could be argued that if Allegheny was listed as the Week 1 opponent .. 90% of the IUP fan-base really wouldn't even know the difference (D2/D3).

The home opener also traditionally draws well at IUP. Not always, but ... usually.

Personally, I have no interest in D3 games. Basketball had to take one last year after a previously scheduled D2 opponent backed out mid-season. IUP won by 50+ and basically tried not to score the final 15 minutes.

Now, on April 20 and with IUP knowing it will not have a Week 1 game against a D2 team ... does that change my opinion? Perhaps. Some. Would a tune-up against players in a different jersey benefit the team prior to its road trips to ESU and Ship? It could. There are also some D3 teams who could come in here and put up a fight. The local ones, however, would not fall in to that category. And, as you said, it takes two to tango. I can't imagine Juniata would be real thrilled to come in here and get pummeled.

[Fightingscot82]

Apples and oranges.

GVSU draws a crowd no matter the opponent. IUP does not.
GVSU has the money to fly in a D3 from California. IUP does not.

And, the fact the game is Week 3 means GVSU does not have to begin its training camp any earlier. That's the rub for having a Week One opening. If IUP were to schedule a game, home or away, they'd have to bring in the team a week earlier than planned, put up 100 or so players in campus housing and feed them, and the team has to pay for that. The cost for it would not be offset by the gate from 1,500 people showing up to watch them pummel Allegheny College.

So is it that D3 risks injury, D3 gets you nothing toward the playoffs, or that IUP football doesn't have the money? Because if you're bemoaning the cost of an extra week of camp playing a Week 1 game - the cost is the same for Allegheny or Alderson Broaddus. We've also shown that IUP draws well over 1,500 for a game. They're not Clarion. Most people don't know that Allegheny is D3 or even what constitutes D2 vs D3. So its safe to assume the game wouldn't draw any different than what IUP would get vs Ashland.

[Horror Child]

So is it that D3 risks injury, D3 gets you nothing toward the playoffs, or that IUP football doesn't have the money? Because if you're bemoaning the cost of an extra week of camp playing a Week 1 game - the cost is the same for Allegheny or Alderson Broaddus. We've also shown that IUP draws well over 1,500 for a game. They're not Clarion. Most people don't know that Allegheny is D3 or even what constitutes D2 vs D3. So its safe to assume the game wouldn't draw any different than what IUP would get vs Ashland.

Yeah the parameters are tight and variable. We waned an 11th game, but don't have one, so now we're glad that we don't have one. What we offered WV Wesleyan was more than enough, but what Lindenwood offered us was no where near enough.

Franklin Pierce is open, but why risk the injuries.

[Matt Burglund]

So is it that D3 risks injury, D3 gets you nothing toward the playoffs, or that IUP football doesn't have the money?

What we offered WV Wesleyan was more than enough

To take a bus from Buckhannon, W.Va. to Indiana for an in-region game, it was.

but what Lindenwood offered us was no where near enough.

To fly to Missouri, for an out-of-region game, it was not.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I feel like reading lofty expectations for IUP football each spring is like Groundhog Day.

To the first BOLD above, that is a time-honored tradition at IUP. Second only to the July conversation about IUP having so many stud RBs that they can't possibly play them all. And, then, of course, by Oct. 1 they have one left and are debating which DB to convert.

That said, I think the hype is somewhat deserved this season. IUP was 7-3 a year ago and easily could have (should have) been 9-1. Of course, you could say they also could have easily been 4-6. It was just an odd season.

The good news is almost all the key pieces of that team are back -- and, a year older (namely the freshmen secondary). I think they found a stud in the new QB. They'll add a couple more pieces this summer. Duane Brown also stayed in town.

As for your second BOLD, 10-0 would mean they have to win in the cursed venue named Adamson. But, Cal has taken some serious losses as of late. This could be the year to end the streak. SRU will come in here breathing fire after the smackdown IUP dropped on them last season. I think the expectation has to be 9-1.

[iupgroundhog]

A lot of focus is on the QB position but I think the potential is there to have a really strong running game. I say 'potential' because none of these guys have come into their own yet as a college RB but the combo of Houser, Stewart, Woody, Sirianni, and now it looks like you can throw in Terrance Glenn, combined with a strong OL could make for a potent attack to complement the passing game. I'm not making predictions but IUP has a lot of weapons on offense.

I don't know who the #1, #2, etc. would be but they could have a 5-headed monster in the backfield. The past several years they have been able to utilize 4 RB's in games successfully.

[Fightingscot82]

You keep saying 1,500 people would show up for a game vs Juniata, but that flies in the face of their attendance. Citing IUPbigINDIANS :

Kutztown - 5,000
Shepherd - 6,367
Gannon - 5,392
California - 4,821
Edinboro - 3,592

Joe also plays D3 schools on occasion and attendance doesn't seem to suffer due to the opponent.

I believe for the casual fan (and for IUP football most are casual fans) a game vs an unknown D2 opponent is worth less than a game vs a known D3 opponent.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Big day for IUP.

Baseball swept Kutztown (including a whopping 26-1 win in Game 2).

Tennis also hammered that green rock.

[IUPNation]

Indiana probably feels like being in Pittsburgh with the H than the one in Kansastan without the H.

[Matt Burglund]

You keep saying 1,500 people would show up for a game vs Juniata, but that flies in the face of their attendance. Citing IUPbigINDIANS :

Kutztown - 5,000
Shepherd - 6,367
Gannon - 5,392
California - 4,821
Edinboro - 3,592

started three threadsmany of press boxes, I have heard conversations like this one:

HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: Hey guys, what do you think the attendance is?
JOE (the scoreboard operator): Looks like about 2000 to me.
HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: Nah, there's more than that.
MIKE (referee observer): I'd say it's 3000.
DAVE (the PA announcer): (Mic off) Are we counting the band?
HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: Sure. How many are in our band?
MIKE: Gotta be at least 250.
HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: OK let's go with this (writes a number on paper and hands it to Dave).
DAVE (the PA announcer): (Mic on) Ladies and gentlemen, today's announced paid attendance is 4,371.

I'm not trying to be funny. I've heard it countless times. More than once I have been asked for, and I have given, my input on attendance.

I have been to places where I would bet my left arm that if you counted the butts in the seats, you'd get around 2,000 yet the box score and the attendance listed way more than that. I've even seen it go the other way, that from the field I'd be certain there were 1,000 people there, yet the box score lists 600 or so.

I know of one school where a guy in the press box used to pull out a dollar bill from his wallet and use the last four digits of the serial number as the attendance.

Home and away, since 1980, IUP has played in front of exactly 9,000 fans 10 times.
They've played in front of exactly 8,500 fans five times.
They've played in front of exactly 5,500 fans seven times.
They've played in front of exactly 3,000 fans five times.

Joe also plays D3 schools on occasion and attendance doesn't seem to suffer due to the opponent.

I believe for the casual fan (and for IUP football most are casual fans) a game vs an unknown D2 opponent is worth less than a game vs a known D3 opponent.

The key thing here is your first two words: "I believe." You've admitted you're an IUP hater. Far as I know, you've never attended or worked at IUP. So how are you an expert on the beliefs of IUP fans?

Maybe IUP fans are more in-tune with college athletics than you think. Maybe they would prefer IUP football play D2 Bemidji State from Minnesota than D3 Juniata College, which is 80 miles down the road. Just maybe.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

started three threadsmany of press boxes, I have heard conversations like this one:

HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: Hey guys, what do you think the attendance is?
JOE (the scoreboard operator): Looks like about 2000 to me.
HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: Nah, there's more than that.
MIKE (referee observer): I'd say it's 3000.
DAVE (the PA announcer): (Mic off) Are we counting the band?
HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: Sure. How many are in our band?
MIKE: Gotta be at least 250.
HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: OK let's go with this (writes a number on paper and hands it to Dave).
DAVE (the PA announcer): (Mic on) Ladies and gentlemen, today's announced paid attendance is 4,371.

I'm not trying to be funny. I've heard it countless times. More than once I have been asked for, and I have given, my input on attendance.

I have been to places where I would bet my left arm that if you counted the butts in the seats, you'd get around 2,000 yet the box score and the attendance listed way more than that. I've even seen it go the other way, that from the field I'd be certain there were 1,000 people there, yet the box score lists 600 or so.

I know of one school where a guy in the press box used to pull out a dollar bill from his wallet and use the last four digits of the serial number as the attendance.

Home and away, since 1980, IUP has played in front of exactly 9,000 fans 10 times.
They've played in front of exactly 8,500 fans five times.
They've played in front of exactly 5,500 fans seven times.
They've played in front of exactly"I believe." You've admitted you're an IUP hater. Far as I know, you've never attended or worked at IUP. So how are you an expert on the beliefs of IUP fans?

Maybe IUP fans are more in-tune with college athletics than you think. Maybe they would prefer IUP football play D2 Bemidji State from Minnesota than D3 Juniata College, which is 80 miles down the road. Just maybe.

One very key item in the basketball attendance is they have to deal with the incredibly long winter break. On the hoops board, we call it the funeral season. They have (7) weeks in the middle of the season with no students on campus, no cheerleaders, no dance teams, etc. It is townie central for almost two months. That is a gate killer. IUP's numbers are very different outside of the funeral season compared to during the funeral season -- as expected. If memory serves, all three D3 games were played during said funeral season.

Also, Le Moyne is traditionally a very strong team. Much like another opponent last year (Virginia State) they just happened to have a down year. Most years, those two would be marquee non-conference games.

[Fightingscot82]

started three threadsmany of press boxes, I have heard conversations like this one:

HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: Hey guys, what do you think the attendance is?
JOE (the scoreboard operator): Looks like about 2000 to me.
HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: Nah, there's more than that.
MIKE (referee observer): I'd say it's 3000.
DAVE (the PA announcer): (Mic off) Are we counting the band?
HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: Sure. How many are in our band?
MIKE: Gotta be at least 250.
HOME TEAM ADMINISTRATOR: OK let's go with this (writes a number on paper and hands it to Dave).
DAVE (the PA announcer): (Mic on) Ladies and gentlemen, today's announced paid attendance is 4,371.

I'm not trying to be funny. I've heard it countless times. More than once I have been asked for, and I have given, my input on attendance.

I have been to places where I would bet my left arm that if you counted the butts in the seats, you'd get around 2,000 yet the box score and the attendance listed way more than that. I've even seen it go the other way, that from the field I'd be certain there were 1,000 people there, yet the box score lists 600 or so.

I know of one school where a guy in the press box used to pull out a dollar bill from his wallet and use the last four digits of the serial number as the attendance.

Home and away, since 1980, IUP has played in front of exactly 9,000 fans 10 times.
They've played in front of exactly 8,500 fans five times.
They've played in front of exactly 5,500 fans seven times.
They've played in front of exactly"I believe." You've admitted you're an IUP hater. Far as I know, you've never attended or worked at IUP. So how are you an expert on the beliefs of IUP fans?

Maybe IUP fans are more in-tune with college athletics than you think. Maybe they would prefer IUP football play D2 Bemidji State from Minnesota than D3 Juniata College, which is 80 miles down the road. Just maybe.

Lots to unpack here.

I'm not arguing the accuracy of attendance figures for PSAC football. But to say that Juniata would draw less than Bemidji State simply because they're D3 is comical. Again, few people know or understand the difference. Small college football is small college football. Now, the Juniata game would probably be a blowout and result in more people leaving early, but that happens already. Did "3,235" fans attend that great season opener 2017 because it was a Thursday night opener or because it was Ashland? How many had heard of Ashland before that game? I have a hard time believing opponent matters much at this level if its not a huge, huge name. We don't have that culture in the PSAC. I believe we draw what we draw because the home team is playing, not the expected quality of the game.

For basketball, attendance in November & December (when the D3 games took place) is abysmal even if they're playing Northwest Missouri State. So comparing the Bethany attendance from Sunday, December 15, 2019 wtih Wednesday, February 19, 2020 is absurd. Logically more people would want to come out and see Trey Staunch lay 30 on IUP. All kidding aside, season averages for PSAC men's basketball are skewed toward the latter half of the season.

I'm not an IUP hater. Its all in good fun.