Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[MrMustang]

Leaves the door open for one. UMAC would be smart to take Mayville, and Valley City. Would get them to 8 football playing members and 9 overall if Northland closes

very good point.

and they would be good fits and allow those schools to stay afloat. D2 is not a good option for them

[MrMustang]

Dakota State's Athletic Director retired yesterday - for another minor development.

I suppose we can be looking if they hire someone with NSIC ties. I simply believe they are already in before they even apply as that is how the NSIC does things --- going back to the NCC dissolving. Everything was a done deal when rumors were there and NDSU was going D1. It was already a forgone conclusion the NSIC would take the stragglers. Same is true today DSU is in already

[MrMustang]

Mercyhurst, the current 15th-ranked team in the 18-team PSAC all-sports standings through the winter season, has announced a move to Division I.

amazing

[Tundra_Man]

Mercyhurst, the current 15th-ranked team in the 18-team PSAC all-sports standings through the winter season, has announced a move to Division I.

Did they announce that on April 1st?

[SW_Mustang]

Did they announce that on April 1st?

NCAA D1 is such a joke. There should be standards about who gets in, and there aren't any.

Guess Crookston is a D1 school now. Sheesh.

[SW_Mustang]

Not surprising. There have been 2-3 colleges closing each and every year since Covid. That changed everything forever and there are a variety of reasons and a variety of challenges.

Remote learning has changed the delivery of everything. No going back. Whether students are better off remains to be seen, but it is changed. Covid also exposed much fluff and waste in many insitutions, not just colleges.

Also Covid hurt many colleges from a revenue standpoint.

Then there are the non-Covid challenges. There was already a glut of higher ed insitutions and they all can't stay open. saturated market.

There is also the change of many more men not going to college than a generation ago. Many men have figured out they can go to the trades, get done in 1 or 2 years of school, and make as much or more money. Every kid who goes to be an electrician has a job right away. That is not true with art majors or sociology majors.

Then there is the political environment in colleges. I know many pretend this doesn't matter, byt many young men don't want to spend money to be told they are the problem. Unfortunately in most states this won't change and many colleges will continue to hemorage in male students.

At some point more will wake up and realize that America is the brokest country in the history of the world with staggering public debt. when that happens there will finally be massive consolidation and closures as there will be no other choice. that might be a generation away, but it is coming.

There are more women than ever going to college. But many go into fields of non profit, govenrment, teaching, social work etc, and they aren't huge wage earners - comfortble but not huge wages. Many have much debt and they are't therefore inclined to be big donors and long term supporters to keep colleges afloat. Yes, true of many young men as well that gt too much debt, but as a percentage more true of females.

anyway, I think we will see 3-4 of these every year unfortunately. It's no different than the annual stories about Minneapolis Public schools facing a huge deficit despite more fundng. At some point we have to pay the piper.

There are far more than 2-3/year. Since the beginning of March alone, we've lost Notre Dame College, Birmingham-Southern, UWM-Waukesha, a campus of Great Basin College, and potentially two more in St. Augustine and Northland.

Covid sped up the process for a handful of schools that were already on their way out but four years on hasn't increased the trends that were already present.

Minnesota and South Dakota lost two each since about 2009 (though SD opened one a couple years ago).

The trends indicate that the hardest hit sector (besides for-profits which nobody cares about) are small, private LACs and Bible Colleges. I would also throw in branch/satellite campuses for community colleges.

More kids are starting to pursue trade education or are skipping college all together. The schools that are closing largely don't provide education that can't be had elsewhere (and usually for cheaper). The secularization of the US is likely to blame for Bible College closures. Then there is the introduction of online education that was first popular with the for-profts that slowly transitioned to legitimate schools in the late 00s/early '10s. The SNHU's and Purdue Global's of the world are raking it in.

That being said, I do agree - mass consolidations are coming. We already see that on the two year side of things.

[Stanger86]

There is also the change of many more men not going to college than a generation ago. Many men have figured out they can go to the trades, get done in 1 or 2 years of school, and make as much or more money. Every kid who goes to be an electrician has a job right away. That is not true with art majors or sociology majors.

I was on the 6-year undergrad plan, and I could switch out of my current job (related to my degree) and make more money at McDonalds.

[SW_Mustang]

I suppose we can be looking if they hire someone with NSIC ties. I simply believe they are already in before they even apply as that is how the NSIC does things --- going back to the NCC dissolving. Everything was a done deal when rumors were there and NDSU was going D1. It was already a forgone conclusion the NSIC would take the stragglers. Same is true today DSU is in already

I think it's inevitable too.

I'm withholding an opinion on DSU joining because if some of their athletic/academic plans go through, it could be an interesting result. Though I think the reality will fall short of the ceiling the current state of the plans could provide.

[SW_Mustang]

I was on the 6-year undergrad plan, and I could switch out of my current job (related to my degree) and make more money at McDonalds.

Ha, I got you beat. I did 7 years for my bachelor's. Though I was only full time for three semesters.

I'm not anti-trade (I strongly considered it myself) - but I'm also leery of the Mike Rowe plan of overromanticizing them. I did a "dirty job" out of college and it was not the promised land - and I'm far happier now that I stopped.

[Stanger86]

I suppose we can be looking if they hire someone with NSIC ties. I simply believe they are already in before they even apply as that is how the NSIC does things --- going back to the NCC dissolving. Everything was a done deal when rumors were there and NDSU was going D1. It was already a forgone conclusion the NSIC would take the stragglers. Same is true today DSU is in already

Yes, that will be a tell. Similar to when Jamestown hired Hieb away from Northern less than two years ago. Look where they are now.

[CheapSkate]

Minnesota and South Dakota lost two each since about 2009 (though SD opened one a couple years ago).

Who were the two in Minnesota? Except for 2-year schools I cannot think of any. And I assume the SD schools were Si Tanka Huron and Presentation?

[SW_Mustang]

Who were the two in Minnesota? Except for 2-year schools I cannot think of any. And I assume the SD schools were Si Tanka Huron and Presentation?

I was wrong - there were actually 3 for Minnesota since 2008 (not counting for-profit institutions):

-Pillsbury Baptist Bible College (Owatonna) closed in 2008
-College of Visual Arts (Minneapolis) closed in 2013
-Crossroads College (Rochester) closed in 2016

PBC was an NCAA DIII member of the UMAC until 1989. Looks like they kept sports after but I don't know where. CVA lists Terry Redlin as an alumni. Crossroads was a member of the NCCAA/ACCA. They moved from Minneapolis to Rochester at some point and I have ties to both campuses.

Minnesota West also shut down a satellite campus in that time frame, but I don't count it because they weren't a degree-granting campus as everything was run through the mothership in Worthington.

South Dakota lost Presentation College in 2023 and Kilian Community College in 2016 - they were a private, not-for-profit two-year that existed since the 1970s. I was always curious about them because being a private, not-for-profit, two-year is a style of higher education that was largely defunct during their operating years, but there's not a ton of info about them.

Huron is an interesting one - the original institution ceased in 1984, when it then became for-profit until 2001, then became tribal-affiliated until 2005 - which kinda puts it in some kind of limbo. From what I can tell, the host university that owned them was not accredited, and the Huron campus was, until it wasn't. Very bizarre situation.

Even more strange is that during their stint as a for-profit, they opened a branch of Huron University in London that outlasted them and is now occupied by a big international b-school. Very odd.


SoDak gained the University of South Dakota-Sioux Falls over the last 2-3 years when the state converted the University Center in SF to be a Community College, and then elevated it to a University - though I can't tell if they offer their own degrees or if they offer degrees from USD-Vermillion.


(Sorry for the book, I find this stuff interesting).

[MrMustang]

There are far more than 2-3/year. Since the beginning of March alone, we've lost Notre Dame College, Birmingham-Southern, UWM-Waukesha, a campus of Great Basin College, and potentially two more in St. Augustine and Northland.

Covid sped up the process for a handful of schools that were already on their way out but four years on hasn't increased the trends that were already present.

Minnesota and South Dakota lost two each since about 2009 (though SD opened one a couple years ago).

The trends indicate that the hardest hit sector (besides for-profits which nobody cares about) are small, private LACs and Bible Colleges. I would also throw in branch/satellite campuses for community colleges.

More kids are starting to pursue trade education or are skipping college all together. The schools that are closing largely don't provide education that can't be had elsewhere (and usually for cheaper). The secularization of the US is likely to blame for Bible College closures. Then there is the introduction of online education that was first popular with the for-profts that slowly transitioned to legitimate schools in the late 00s/early '10s. The SNHU's and Purdue Global's of the world are raking it in.

That being said, I do agree - mass consolidations are coming. We already see that on the two year side of things.

I did not know there were that many. I have only seen the stories on 2-3 year - mostly the upper midwest ones starting with Presentation last year.

But lets say there are 5-7 a year nationwide - that's a lot. And I would expect that to continue for the next decade at least. there is a huge glut for sure.

[MrMustang]

There are far more than 2-3/year. Since the beginning of March alone, we've lost Notre Dame College, Birmingham-Southern, UWM-Waukesha, a campus of Great Basin College, and potentially two more in St. Augustine and Northland.

Covid sped up the process for a handful of schools that were already on their way out but four years on hasn't increased the trends that were already present.

Minnesota and South Dakota lost two each since about 2009 (though SD opened one a couple years ago).

The trends indicate that the hardest hit sector (besides for-profits which nobody cares about) are small, private LACs and Bible Colleges. I would also throw in branch/satellite campuses for community colleges.

More kids are starting to pursue trade education or are skipping college all together. The schools that are closing largely don't provide education that can't be had elsewhere (and usually for cheaper). The secularization of the US is likely to blame for Bible College closures. Then there is the introduction of online education that was first popular with the for-profts that slowly transitioned to legitimate schools in the late 00s/early '10s. The SNHU's and Purdue Global's of the world are raking it in.

That being said, I do agree - mass consolidations are coming. We already see that on the two year side of things.

I think secularization is a factor on many small colleges that are faith based closing for sure. There is also a niche for more serious faith based colleges. Christendom College, Ave Maria, and Wyoming College are small but thriving. So is Hillsdale. I also think there are way to many colleges in Minnesota and there will be public consolidations

[MrMustang]

Ha, I got you beat. I did 7 years for my bachelor's. Though I was only full time for three semesters.

I'm not anti-trade (I strongly considered it myself) - but I'm also leery of the Mike Rowe plan of overromanticizing them. I did a "dirty job" out of college and it was not the promised land - and I'm far happier now that I stopped.

well there is a great need for trades. There is always a need for mechanics, electricians, oil workers, and plumbers. They are necessities that won't go away in any time soon.

I can tell you there is a glut of lawyers (although a shorter in Greater Minnesota). And there is an excess of good lawyers and lawyers who work hard which is fine by me. We have more work than we can complete every day. That might change some day, but chaos and dysunction grow so there is work.I do know I would not recommend a young person spend the huge amoutn of money to go to law school - when I went it was relatively cheap. Not a good investment today in my opinion, but apparently many young peopel disagree.