Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[MrMustang]

There are far more than 2-3/year. Since the beginning of March alone, we've lost Notre Dame College, Birmingham-Southern, UWM-Waukesha, a campus of Great Basin College, and potentially two more in St. Augustine and Northland.

Covid sped up the process for a handful of schools that were already on their way out but four years on hasn't increased the trends that were already present.

Minnesota and South Dakota lost two each since about 2009 (though SD opened one a couple years ago).

The trends indicate that the hardest hit sector (besides for-profits which nobody cares about) are small, private LACs and Bible Colleges. I would also throw in branch/satellite campuses for community colleges.

More kids are starting to pursue trade education or are skipping college all together. The schools that are closing largely don't provide education that can't be had elsewhere (and usually for cheaper). The secularization of the US is likely to blame for Bible College closures. Then there is the introduction of online education that was first popular with the for-profts that slowly transitioned to legitimate schools in the late 00s/early '10s. The SNHU's and Purdue Global's of the world are raking it in.

That being said, I do agree - mass consolidations are coming. We already see that on the two year side of things.

I did not know there were that many. I have only seen the stories on 2-3 year - mostly the upper midwest ones starting with Presentation last year.

But lets say there are 5-7 a year nationwide - that's a lot. And I would expect that to continue for the next decade at least. there is a huge glut for sure.

[MrMustang]

There are far more than 2-3/year. Since the beginning of March alone, we've lost Notre Dame College, Birmingham-Southern, UWM-Waukesha, a campus of Great Basin College, and potentially two more in St. Augustine and Northland.

Covid sped up the process for a handful of schools that were already on their way out but four years on hasn't increased the trends that were already present.

Minnesota and South Dakota lost two each since about 2009 (though SD opened one a couple years ago).

The trends indicate that the hardest hit sector (besides for-profits which nobody cares about) are small, private LACs and Bible Colleges. I would also throw in branch/satellite campuses for community colleges.

More kids are starting to pursue trade education or are skipping college all together. The schools that are closing largely don't provide education that can't be had elsewhere (and usually for cheaper). The secularization of the US is likely to blame for Bible College closures. Then there is the introduction of online education that was first popular with the for-profts that slowly transitioned to legitimate schools in the late 00s/early '10s. The SNHU's and Purdue Global's of the world are raking it in.

That being said, I do agree - mass consolidations are coming. We already see that on the two year side of things.

I think secularization is a factor on many small colleges that are faith based closing for sure. There is also a niche for more serious faith based colleges. Christendom College, Ave Maria, and Wyoming College are small but thriving. So is Hillsdale. I also think there are way to many colleges in Minnesota and there will be public consolidations

[MrMustang]

Ha, I got you beat. I did 7 years for my bachelor's. Though I was only full time for three semesters.

I'm not anti-trade (I strongly considered it myself) - but I'm also leery of the Mike Rowe plan of overromanticizing them. I did a "dirty job" out of college and it was not the promised land - and I'm far happier now that I stopped.

well there is a great need for trades. There is always a need for mechanics, electricians, oil workers, and plumbers. They are necessities that won't go away in any time soon.

I can tell you there is a glut of lawyers (although a shorter in Greater Minnesota). And there is an excess of good lawyers and lawyers who work hard which is fine by me. We have more work than we can complete every day. That might change some day, but chaos and dysunction grow so there is work.I do know I would not recommend a young person spend the huge amoutn of money to go to law school - when I went it was relatively cheap. Not a good investment today in my opinion, but apparently many young peopel disagree.

[MrMustang]

I am amazed at the number of msall private college all over the Midwest that I have discovered in my 3 years following the NAIA and my kid play baseball. There must be 75-80 in the Midwest. Most of 1000-2000 students and in smaller towns.

Then you throw in all the D3 which are similar 1000-2000 students well are there are just a lot of small colleges,

I supoose as long as they can keep costs down, they are ok, but they are all similar -- in that they use athletics as en enrollement driver. On most campuses 75% of the students are there for sports . That is a huge numer. If students become employees, that is the end of all those small colleges. There is a big movement in D1 to make that happen it would kill small colleges.

[SW_Mustang]

I did not know there were that many. I have only seen the stories on 2-3 year - mostly the upper midwest ones starting with Presentation last year.

But lets say there are 5-7 a year nationwide - that's a lot. And I would expect that to continue for the next decade at least. there is a huge glut for sure.

Double that estimate - it was 14 in 2023 just for non-profit four years. That doesn't include mergers and acquisitions, and the ever evolving landscape of 2-year schools.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...d-mergers-2023

[SW_Mustang]

I am amazed at the number of msall private college all over the Midwest that I have discovered in my 3 years following the NAIA and my kid play baseball. There must be 75-80 in the Midwest. Most of 1000-2000 students and in smaller towns.

Then you throw in all the D3 which are similar 1000-2000 students well are there are just a lot of small colleges,

I supoose as long as they can keep costs down, they are ok, but they are all similar -- in that they use athletics as en enrollement driver. On most campuses 75% of the students are there for sports . That is a huge numer. If students become employees, that is the end of all those small colleges. There is a big movement in D1 to make that happen it would kill small colleges.

Several years ago, I was bored so I counted all the physical locations a person could earn a degree from a non-profit institution in Minnesota and I landed around 100.

I didn't count Luther College, and some of those places were double-ups like when St. Scholastica was operating at CLC. There were also a handful like Augsburg in Rochester where the building was not owned by the school but they had the means to offer degrees there on a consistent annual basis. So I didn't count things like when SMSU used to offer programs outside of Marshall but it was a one-off deal.

And I know I missed a few.

[Tundra_Man]

I was on the 6-year undergrad plan

Ha, I got you beat. I did 7 years for my bachelor's

You guys are lightweights. 14 year plan here. Started in 1987 and graduated in 2001.

I made some rather poor academic decisions that I needed to undo.

[SW_Mustang]

You guys are lightweights. 14 year plan here. Started in 1987 and graduated in 2001.

I made some rather poor academic decisions that I needed to undo.

Hey, crossing the line is what matters! All at USF?

*Technically* I could say I've gone to college for the last 12 years, with one semester where I didn't take anything. I kinda realized as I got older that learning in a structured environment is fun and rewarding, especially when I'm in total control of what I take. Tests suck worse in my ripe old age though. Had one today. Oofta.

[SW_Mustang]

I think secularization is a factor on many small colleges that are faith based closing for sure. There is also a niche for more serious faith based colleges. Christendom College, Ave Maria, and Wyoming College are small but thriving. So is Hillsdale. I also think there are way to many colleges in Minnesota and there will be public consolidations

I agree - I actually read an article about this in Forbes where the author asserted that fewer people going to church meant fewer people going to Bible school, which makes total logical sense.

I'm not pro or anti Bible school, but I do wonder how practical some of those degrees are in the real world.

Consolidation in MN started already when Minnesota North was formed. I guess one could say Minnesota West and Ridgewater were early consolidation efforts. Northern Vermont is another famous one on the public side. Though technically the University of Minnesota and Minnesota A&M merged so long ago, people don't realize they were two different schools.

[SW_Mustang]

well there is a great need for trades. There is always a need for mechanics, electricians, oil workers, and plumbers. They are necessities that won't go away in any time soon.

I can tell you there is a glut of lawyers (although a shorter in Greater Minnesota). And there is an excess of good lawyers and lawyers who work hard which is fine by me. We have more work than we can complete every day. That might change some day, but chaos and dysunction grow so there is work.I do know I would not recommend a young person spend the huge amoutn of money to go to law school - when I went it was relatively cheap. Not a good investment today in my opinion, but apparently many young peopel disagree.

To be fair to the youngin' folk - they've been indoctrinated for the last 40 years into believing that college is the only path to success, or to avoid a life on the fast food line. Many of them, myself included, didn't know any better until much later. I chose to finish my degree for my own reasons, but I was told from about the age of 5 if I didn't get "a degree," I'd be "flipping burgers." I realized that was false about 75% the way through my degree and actually considered quitting. We need to change how we approach K-12 education instead of just blaming the victims of it (speaking in a societal sense, not saying you are).

Also, I agree the trades are very valuable - but they come with their own drawbacks like any decision does, and some of them are quite debilitating in their own right - but are mostly forgotten about when offering that pathway to people, which is also oddly convenient. When I get to that point with my metaphorical kids, the choice is theirs - so long as they are productive and self-sustaining, I couldn't really care less what they do.

[Tundra_Man]

Hey, crossing the line is what matters! All at USF?

*Technically* I could say I've gone to college for the last 12 years, with one semester where I didn't take anything. I kinda realized as I got older that learning in a structured environment is fun and rewarding, especially when I'm in total control of what I take. Tests suck worse in my ripe old age though. Had one today. Oofta.

Yes, all at USF. Went full time for a year, flunked almost everything and got kicked out. Talked them in to taking me back, flunked everything for another semester and got kicked out again. Lost all my academic scholarships.

Made some life changes, talked them into taking me back yet again and took it serious this time. I had to retake most of my first three semesters. By this time I was working full time so I just took a class or two every semester until I finally finished.

The nice thing about the slow pace was I could pay for everything as I went so when I graduated I was student debt free. So it wasn't all bad.

[SW_Mustang]

Yes, all at USF. Went full time for a year, flunked almost everything and got kicked out. Talked them in to taking me back, flunked everything for another semester and got kicked out again. Lost all my academic scholarships.

Made some life changes, talked them into taking me back yet again and took it serious this time. I had to retake most of my first three semesters. By this time I was working full time so I just took a class or two every semester until I finally finished.

The nice thing about the slow pace was I could pay for everything as I went so when I graduated I was student debt free. So it wasn't all bad.

I think the pay-as-you-go method is pretty underrated. I did something similar. Finished high school as a D student and knew I wasn't going to be able to take a full load until I sorted myself out, so I took 2 classes/semester until I got my 2 year, then I transitioned to full-time for a year and a half and ended up doing fairly well with it, finished back on a part time basis.

Limiting or excluding a debt load is such a great thing, even if it takes longer.

[CheapSkate]

Looks like the news out of Northland College is ... no news. They are giving themselves 2 ore weeks to raise the funds needed, or then will be closing at the end of the year

Future of Northland College in Ashland, Wis., remains uncertain as fundraising effort falls short (msn.com)

[CheapSkate]

I think secularization is a factor on many small colleges that are faith based closing for sure. There is also a niche for more serious faith based colleges. Christendom College, Ave Maria, and Wyoming College are small but thriving. So is Hillsdale. I also think there are way to many colleges in Minnesota and there will be public consolidations

Totally agree .. way too many schools in Minnesota, and many without a unique niche. One of the best things about Minnesota Morris is they know who they are, they're the states public liberal arts college. Crookston is nothing. They're not even great at ag or natural resources anymore. And they're in the least populated part of the state with UND, NDSU, MSUM, Concordia-Moorhead and Bemidji State all within 90 miles.

The consolidation idea has been brewing for a while. I used to have some friends in different athletic departments about 15 years ago, one at BSU and one at SCSU, and they would lament about how each school was underfunded. Back then they were saying one needed to close to they could combine and share budgets, scholarships, etc. They'd be the St. Bemidji State Husky Beavers!!!

[SW_Mustang]

Totally agree .. way too many schools in Minnesota, and many without a unique niche. One of the best things about Minnesota Morris is they know who they are, they're the states public liberal arts college. Crookston is nothing. They're not even great at ag or natural resources anymore. And they're in the least populated part of the state with UND, NDSU, MSUM, Concordia-Moorhead and Bemidji State all within 90 miles.

The consolidation idea has been brewing for a while. I used to have some friends in different athletic departments about 15 years ago, one at BSU and one at SCSU, and they would lament about how each school was underfunded. Back then they were saying one needed to close to they could combine and share budgets, scholarships, etc. They'd be the St. Bemidji State Husky Beavers!!!

Kinda one thing I enjoy *gasp* about South Dakota. The private schools will do as they please, but for the most part - the public universities serve specific goals. If you want a business degree, you go to USD. If you want an Ag degree, you go to SDSU. If you want a computer degree, you go to DSU.

There's obviously some overlap, but we don't have 8 universities all offering MBAs. NSU and BHSU might seem like the ugly ducklings, but they do provide education in areas where access to is would otherwise be difficult, so they're cool in my book.

Then of course our 2-years are some of the best *gasp* in the country, especially Mitchell Tech and LATC.