West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Why would you quit the week of the conference tournament? Not exactly a ringing endorsement for people recruiting you. He couldn't have stuck it out a couple more weeks?

They needed a player, he was available and he had some pretty impressive offensive stats. I think they took a chance that he would want to learn to play the WLU way and contribute. Clearly he was not on board and really didn't want to do much other than shoot. Too bad for him because as Columbus stated, him learning to play the WLU style would have only made him a better prospect for pro ball in Europe.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

They needed a player, he was available and he had some pretty impressive offensive stats. I think they took a chance that he would want to learn to play the WLU way and contribute. Clearly he was not on board and really didn't want to do much other than shoot. Too bad for him because as Columbus stated, him learning to play the WLU style would have only made him a better prospect for pro ball in Europe.

They signed him real late as I recall. Perhaps there was a reason he was still available. The JUCO recruiting game is like roulette.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I'm not surprised. Just can't play like he did in his limited time and expect to see the floor. There is more to WLU than scoring and admiring your follow through. He didn't learn to play D because he didn't want to learn...His loss. Leaves a spot open for a player that can actually contribute.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Ben certainly had advantages in taking over after Crutch (primarily program name recognition), but it hasn't been a cake walk! Heading into his first year, with all the transfers, de commits and graduations was quite the challenge...He had Monteroso and two part time starters (Griffin and Meininger) to go with a handful of bench players! This year, while a bit more stable was also a struggle. Had to replace Monteroso (graduation), danger close to losing Bolon (what he has done on one eye is just amazing) and lost your best outside shooter (French). Five of WLU's top six scores from last year either graduated (Monty and Watson), transferred (Griffin) or were injured (Bolon and French) and Ben found a way to finish the regular season 24-3 and win the MEC Title. Not bad for a second year HC!!

Hopefully Ben's third year will give us a modicum of stability that the first two years haven't. If all the players return, this team is REALLY set up nicely for next year and a couple years beyond that.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Ben certainly had advantages in taking over after Crutch (primarily program name recognition), but it hasn't been a cake walk! Heading into his first year, with all the transfers, de commits and graduations was quite the challenge...He had Monteroso and two part time starters (Griffin and Meininger) to go with a handful of bench players! This year, while a bit more stable was also a struggle. Had to replace Monteroso (graduation), danger close to losing Bolon (what he has done on one eye is just amazing) and lost your best outside shooter (French). Five of WLU's top six scores from last year either graduated (Monty and Watson), transferred (Griffin) or were injured (Bolon and French) and Ben found a way to finish the regular season 24-3 and win the MEC Title. Not bad for a second year HC!!

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

While the 50 win in less than two year plateau is pretty impressive, I was being a little tounge in cheek on the "career winning %" one! There is a lot that can happen over the next three years to nock that down. Heck, if his winning % was .750 at five years, that would still rank him ahead of "Bravado Joe"!!!

Not to belittle Crutch because his accomplishments at WLU are simply amazing! And yes, he did take over a team that won 4 games the year previous, but that year was an outlier. Basically, WLU was a 500'ish team for the 12 seasons leading up Crutch stepping in. That's certainly not good, but far from bad. Basically we were the Shepherd of that era...not good...not bad...just kind of - meh.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

They signed him real late as I recall. Perhaps there was a reason he was still available. The JUCO recruiting game is like roulette.

JUCO is like roulette! You can get some really good players who were overlooked...and then you can get players who had a real "reason" for playing JUCO!!!

While we are just learning about this cat leaving the program, looks like he's been gone since right after the Glenville game on Feb 22 (last game he played in). His name was removed from the pre game notes after that game and his name has now been removed from the on-line team roster. Guess he wasn't happy getting 3 minutes in WLU's 98-77 blowout of Glenville!!!

I know that almost every team has a player with the #1 jersey, but it just bothered me that he came in and took that number! I mean, you are a JUCO player who apparently few teams wanted and you come in LATE to one of the top DII programs in the nation and wear #1?? Maybe prove yourself a little before you do that??

[Scrub]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

JUCO is like roulette! You can get some really good players who were overlooked...and then you can get players who had a real "reason" for playing JUCO!!!

While we are just learning about this cat leaving the program, looks like he's been gone since right after the Glenville game on Feb 22 (last game he played in). His name was removed from the pre game notes after that game and his name has now been removed from the on-line team roster. Guess he wasn't happy getting 3 minutes in WLU's 98-77 blowout of Glenville!!!

I know that almost every team has a player with the #1 jersey, but it just bothered me that he came in and took that number! I mean, you are a JUCO player who apparently few teams wanted and you come in LATE to one of the top DII programs in the nation and wear #1?? Maybe prove yourself a little before you do that??

Well, WLU had an outgoing Watson who wore #1 last year. Maybe Ariel thought WLU put names on the jerseys and he was trying to save the equipment manager some work! ; )

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Well, WLU had an outgoing Watson who wore #1 last year. Maybe Ariel thought WLU put names on the jerseys and he was trying to save the equipment manager some work! ; )

Hahahahaha!! Maybe THAT's it!! Maybe Ben mixed up this years Watson's recruiting tape with Jordan Watson's and thought he could play D??!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

WL is very systematic. JUCO imports are 'typically' more playground types. WL also loves to redshirt players and let them slowly work in to their roles. There's not always time to do that with transfers. Joe Lombardi is one of the only coaches I know who can convince incoming junior transfers to routinely redshirt. If you tell most they are going to redshirt they will just go somewhere else. Tossing a JUCO scorer in to the WL system is a big ask for most of those guys. JUCO ball is essentially AAU style.

He obviously has some talent, size and speed. Sounds like it just wasn't a good fit from both ends. He won't have trouble finding a home somewhere. The quiting in late FEB part, however, is a big red flag (if that's indeed how it went down).

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

WLU doesn't bring in many JUCO's (Watson is the only one that comes to mind but there could be one or two others). Just my take is that with JUCO's, you get what you get. They don't seem to be very interested in being coached up.

WLU does favor bring in HS players they can mold. Red shirting is not uncommon but they will give a true freshman the opportunity to start if they come in capable (Dave Dennis started as a TF and this year Yaehl Hill starts as a TF). WLU has also started relatively recently to bring in an occasional transfer...typically those are multi year guys but occasionally they are the one and done variety if there is a particular need.

Heck, maybe Joe will bring him in. You guys seem to be in the market for WLU cast offs (Dyer and Humphreies)!! Given how WLU players perform when they leave WLU, that's not a bad recruiting strategy!!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

WL is very systematic. JUCO imports are 'typically' more playground types. WL also loves to redshirt players and let them slowly work in to their roles. There's not always time to do that with transfers. Joe Lombardi is one of the only coaches I know who can convince incoming junior transfers to routinely redshirt. If you tell most they are going to redshirt they will just go somewhere else. Tossing a JUCO scorer in to the WL system is a big ask for most of those guys. JUCO ball is essentially AAU style.

He obviously has some talent, size and speed. Sounds like it just wasn't a good fit from both ends. He won't have trouble finding a home somewhere. The quiting in late FEB part, however, is a big red flag (if that's indeed how it went down).

I agree that he will probably land somewhere. IMHO, if he wants to play in Europe, he has to work on his understanding of team fundamentals as well as defense. I hope he will work on these skills at the next stop for him. A redshirt would have been great for him, but I wonder if his pride would not allow it.
As I said before, I liked the guy and was hoping that he would quickly address the deficiencies in his game. Had he done so, he would have gotten major minutes in 1st or 2nd platoon.
What puzzles me is how could such a player have been coached all these years without being taught a lick of defense? I mean, everything from his stance to his positioning on the court was worse than a middle school player.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I agree that he will probably land somewhere. IMHO, if he wants to play in Europe, he has to work on his understanding of team fundamentals as well as defense. I hope he will work on these skills at the next stop for him. A redshirt would have been great for him, but I wonder if his pride would not allow it.
As I said before, I liked the guy and was hoping that he would quickly address the deficiencies in his game. Had he done so, he would have gotten major minutes in 1st or 2nd platoon.
What puzzles me is how could such a player have been coached all these years without being taught a lick of defense? I mean, everything from his stance to his positioning on the court was worse than a middle school player.

Three little letters...A A U. Seems like their mantra is "Can't spell NBA with defense!"

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

WLU doesn't bring in many JUCO's (Watson is the only one that comes to mind but there could be one or two others). Just my take is that with JUCO's, you get what you get. They don't seem to be very interested in being coached up.

WLU does favor bring in HS players they can mold. Red shirting is not uncommon but they will give a true freshman the opportunity to start if they come in capable (Dave Dennis started as a TF and this year Yaehl Hill starts as a TF). WLU has also started relatively recently to bring in an occasional transfer...typically those are multi year guys but occasionally they are the one and done variety if there is a particular need.

Heck, maybe Joe will bring him in. You guys seem to be in the market for WLU cast offs (Dyer and Humphreies)!! Given how WLU players perform when they leave WLU, that's not a bad recruiting strategy!!

Good Points. Many players also need time to adapt to the level of effort that is required. It is a shock even for D1 transfers who thought they were playing hard to realize that they are not even close to playing with the level of effort that WL expects. Some never adjust enough to get major minutes.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Three little letters...A A U. Seems like their mantra is "Can't spell NBA with defense!"

So True. Another issue with AAU seems to be there is little regard for committing turnovers. Extrapolating based on his minutes played, if Ariel had played 40 minutes he would have committed over 8 turnovers and committed 5.5 fouls!. I saw him throw a long pass downcourt into double coverage with a small window to Nate Allen that was Tom Brady-esque. Should never have been thrown. Nate only caught it because if the opposing guard had gone for the intercept, the collision with a man the size of Nate would have put him in the ER!

There is a guy in Columbus who got MVP of the 270 Hoops league this fall. Unstoppable in a playground AAU game, averaging over 30 pts. I went to see him play a high school team, thinking that I would see a complete player dominate in a structured game. He was totally ineffective in a team offense and his defense was non-existent. Bad passes, turnovers. A much less talented team had their way with them.

AAU is killing USA basketball (Kobe Bryant happens to agree. He thinks Euro players are superior now)