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West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

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  • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

    Playing an easy early schedule will not make a so-so team better. It seems that the WLU fans who are complaining about playing solid teams early (these are not national contender type teams) are simply admitting that they prefere to inflate their wins and then claim entitlement to the #1 seed in the regional. I mean no disrespect, but to be complaining about opening the seson at home against Kutztown (who turned around and lost to W.V. Wesleyan) is very nearly laughable.

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    • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

      Originally posted by Knightmoves View Post
      Playing an easy early schedule will not make a so-so team better. It seems that the WLU fans who are complaining about playing solid teams early (these are not national contender type teams) are simply admitting that they prefere to inflate their wins and then claim entitlement to the #1 seed in the regional. I mean no disrespect, but to be complaining about opening the seson at home against Kutztown (who turned around and lost to W.V. Wesleyan) is very nearly laughable.
      Careful Knight, if you say ANYTHING that isn't over the top complimentary about WL, you will have 20 posts about it over the next 2 months calling you a hater or that you don't know what you're talking about. You'll also have your words twisted; just giving you the spoiler alert

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      • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

        AGREE WITH THIS, NORRIS!

        The bump in SOS will be big, no matter what WL final record is...

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        • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

          Originally posted by Knightmoves View Post
          Playing an easy early schedule will not make a so-so team better. It seems that the WLU fans who are complaining about playing solid teams early (these are not national contender type teams) are simply admitting that they prefere to inflate their wins and then claim entitlement to the #1 seed in the regional. I mean no disrespect, but to be complaining about opening the seson at home against Kutztown (who turned around and lost to W.V. Wesleyan) is very nearly laughable.
          Agreed, Knightmoves!! and I back the Hilltoppers...Play the tough games...

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          • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

            Originally posted by Knightmoves View Post
            Playing an easy early schedule will not make a so-so team better. It seems that the WLU fans who are complaining about playing solid teams early (these are not national contender type teams) are simply admitting that they prefere to inflate their wins and then claim entitlement to the #1 seed in the regional. I mean no disrespect, but to be complaining about opening the seson at home against Kutztown (who turned around and lost to W.V. Wesleyan) is very nearly laughable.
            I tend to agree your point about so-so teams. I think the dilemma comes when you have a very young team that is talented. I agree on no cup-cakes. But is it better to play decent teams early rather than top-tier teams for a young team? I though Kutztown was very well coached and played very good defense.

            WLU started 2 freshman, 2 sophs and 1 senior. The question in my mind is how does a particularly young team handle a loss against a tough team early? WLU passed with flying colors against West Chester, leading by 20 in both halves. However, they may lose more games than typical years. I expect wide variation in performance on a given night for a young team.

            BTW, Kutztown had WV Wesleyan beaten for most of the game, leading by 5 to 10 points. Seemed like they got tired and lost focus very late in the game with turnovers and bad offensive looks.

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            • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

              Originally posted by IUP Extra Mile View Post
              AGREE WITH THIS, NORRIS!

              The bump in SOS will be big, no matter what WL final record is...
              And if we finish the regular season with 4 losses on the season vice 2 and a #3 seed as opposed to a legit chance to host the region, what have we really gotten besides the ability to say we played two tough games to open the season?

              What going 1-1 to start the season vs the usual 2-0 has done is open the possibilities for a bunch of teams to host the region which is exactly what outsiders want. If WLU scheduling easy to open the season has become such a hamstring on WLU hosting the region, you would think that fans of other programs would want WLU to continue to do just that. Fact that so many fans of other teams have advocated for years for WLU to play tough early season games should tell WLU fans something. I personally want IUP to open the season vs the #1 and #2 ranked teams in the country...not because I want IUP to be better, but because I want them to be 0-2 and that increases MY teams chances of hosting the Regionals. If there is a team in my region that consistently goes through the season with 2 losses, I'm going to want them to play harder teams not because I want them to be stronger, but because I want them to have more losses which increases MY teams chances (that is, unless my team gives in to pressure and schedules and losses hard games ourselves).

              Anytime a fan of a competitor program advocates for my team to change what has proven to be a successful formula for hosting and winning the Region and having deep playoff runs with multiple final four appearances, I'm a little skeptical that they truly have my teams best interest at heart.

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              • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                Originally posted by IUP Extra Mile View Post
                AGREE WITH THIS, NORRIS!

                The bump in SOS will be big, no matter what WL final record is...
                We also get to play 2-0 Kings College later in the season. But that's OK...They have ONLY beaten Flagler College and Columbus State so they should be no problem since we played to stronger teams and should be better for it.

                Plenty of teams with really good SOS miss the playoffs every year. I'm sure their fan base is really understanding when their coach says - "Yea, but at least we played tough teams."
                Last edited by boatcapt; 11-12-2018, 10:06 AM.

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                • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                  On the flip side your soft schedule last year DID cost you hosting the regional despite your regular season record. VSU got rewarded last year for having a far-superior SOS.

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                  • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                    Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
                    On the flip side your soft schedule last year DID cost you hosting the regional despite your regular season record. VSU got rewarded last year for having a far-superior SOS.
                    Hummm...And how did IUP's tough schedule work out for them??

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                    • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                      Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                      Hummm...And how did IUP's tough schedule work out for them??
                      Not talking about IUP. Specifically, WL and getting bumped last year.

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                      • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                        Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
                        Not talking about IUP. Specifically, WL and getting bumped last year.
                        OK...Don't want to talk about the effect IUP's tough early schedule had on them last year. That's cool and understandable.

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                        • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                          Lol it's your thread.

                          You don't have to scroll too far in history to know our opinion. Joe goes a little too crazy. I'd prefer a maybe 3-hard 2-easy split in non-conference.

                          Sounds like your own people agree with Ben.

                          Comment


                          • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                            Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                            And if we finish the regular season with 4 losses on the season vice 2 and a #3 seed as opposed to a legit chance to host the region, what have we really gotten besides the ability to say we played two tough games to open the season?

                            What going 1-1 to start the season vs the usual 2-0 has done is open the possibilities for a bunch of teams to host the region which is exactly what outsiders want. If WLU scheduling easy to open the season has become such a hamstring on WLU hosting the region, you would think that fans of other programs would want WLU to continue to do just that. Fact that so many fans of other teams have advocated for years for WLU to play tough early season games should tell WLU fans something. I personally want IUP to open the season vs the #1 and #2 ranked teams in the country...not because I want IUP to be better, but because I want them to be 0-2 and that increases MY teams chances of hosting the Regionals. If there is a team in my region that consistently goes through the season with 2 losses, I'm going to want them to play harder teams not because I want them to be stronger, but because I want them to have more losses which increases MY teams chances (that is, unless my team gives in to pressure and schedules and losses hard games ourselves).

                            Anytime a fan of a competitor program advocates for my team to change what has proven to be a successful formula for hosting and winning the Region and having deep playoff runs with multiple final four appearances, I'm a little skeptical that they truly have my teams best interest at heart.

                            Comment


                            • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                              Good discussion. Lots of good points on both sides. Based on input from folks and looking at prior results:
                              1. Today an Easy out of conference schedule forces you to have at least 4 or 5 fewer losses in order to host. sos is given serious consideration, provided you won some of these games and did not have Blowout losses. But if u get upset in conference by mediocre team then excessive losses to other strong teams early in season can work against u by lowering won-loss record relative to other teams.
                              2. Gap between Wlu and rest of conference is much narrower and conference is deeper and stronger (See results from this weekend versus pa teams). Fairmont and others are recruiting and signing players that wlu really wanted. There are more good coaches too. Therefore days of 31-1 and many blowout wins are probably gone, which Overcame weak sos.
                              3. Imho Even with strong schedule it will probably be difficult to host with more than 6 losses. So you can go overboard with sos to your detriment.
                              4. Tough schedule is high risk and high reward scenario. Imho Guess is sweet spot is a max of 2 or 3 tough teams and ideally you avoid playing them all at beginning of season.

                              Comment


                              • Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

                                Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                                Good discussion. Lots of good points on both sides. Based on input from folks and looking at prior results:
                                1. Today an Easy out of conference schedule forces you to have at least 4 or 5 fewer losses in order to host. sos is given serious consideration, provided you won some of these games and did not have Blowout losses. But if u get upset in conference by mediocre team then excessive losses to other strong teams early in season can work against u by lowering won-loss record relative to other teams.
                                2. Gap between Wlu and rest of conference is much narrower and conference is deeper and stronger (See results from this weekend versus pa teams). Fairmont and others are recruiting and signing players that wlu really wanted. There are more good coaches too. Therefore days of 31-1 and many blowout wins are probably gone, which Overcame weak sos.
                                3. Imho Even with strong schedule it will probably be difficult to host with more than 6 losses. So you can go overboard with sos to your detriment.
                                4. Tough schedule is high risk and high reward scenario. Imho Guess is sweet spot is a max of 2 or 3 tough teams and ideally you avoid playing them all at beginning of season.
                                And I would add that scheduling easier teams is low risk, high reward. I would argue that the fact that the MEC is much stronger actually argues for scheduling OOC games you have a really good chance of winning BECAUSE you are quite probably going to lose a couple of games to some really, really good teams in conference play...couple those two regular season conference losses with a couple of OOC losses because you scheduled tough and you are possible in a place were you don't want to be...even if you have a high SOS. Have a truly down year for WLU (four in conf losses) and lose two OOC because you scheduled hard and now you are sitting on the bubble with a real chance of sitting at home.

                                You also have to look at how teams develop and how coaches approach preparing their teams. Since Crutch came on board and now with Ben at the helm, WLU seems to have approached the first couple of games as almost and extension of pre-season practice. Lineups are juggled...different on-court combinations are tried...minute allocations are determined. In short, the way they approach seasons is quite different than say, IUP. IUP practices and prepares for tough opening games because that is what Joe wants. Pretty much the starting lineup is set and the minute allocations are penciled out long before the opening tip. So if WLU is going to continue to schedule tough games right out of the gate, they are going to have to change how they approach the season to do things they haven't done in MANY years...OR run the risk of losing one or both opening weekend games every year.

                                Also missed in this WLU needs to schedule hard teams discussion is the fact that King University is on the schedule this year (as they were last). King was a playoff team from Conf Carolinas last year and has been picked to finish #1 in CC this year.
                                Last edited by boatcapt; 11-12-2018, 12:25 PM.

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