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  • Re: Iup basketball

    Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    My guess:

    Starting 5

    David Morris (PG)
    Malik Miller (G)
    Armoni Foster (G)
    Chucky Humphries (F)
    Shawn Ulrich (F)

    (Rotation) Bench

    Shawndale Jones (G)
    Tommy Demogerontas (F)

    That's your (7)

    Next off bench

    Ousmane Diop
    Anthony White

    Likely to redshirt

    All three freshmen (Porterfield, Rhodes and Radford)


    Many have told me all three freshmen could play this year, talent-wise. However, we all know Joe isn't playing 11 guys.

    We'll see how they all mesh, but this is one of his deepest rosters. And, if he wants some muscle on the floor ... go further down the bench to Alan Glover Jr. That guy is a tank. Tort would salivate over him.

    There's also going to come a night he starts all four of those guards plus Chucky. We'll see that at some point. Shawndale is a house. He'll bang under the glass with anybody.
    Just throwing this out there: I'm told IUP for at least the last several years has operated with 10 scholarship equivalences. Add to it that Dante was going tuition-free the last four years, really makes you wonder why Joe only plays 7 and sometimes one of them is a walk-on. Granted, the non-American players probably cost a few extra dollars than someone from Indiana High.
    Pete Sirianni. Digital Editor, New Castle News.

    2016 IUP graduate. twitter.com/petersirianni.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
      My reply was presented as sarcasm also! Poke at how much importance IUP faithful put in which D1 they are "playing."

      I had considered posting about this years IUP team being the BEST Joe had put together...EVER! But I figured the IUP faithful wouldn't get the joke!! FYI...EVERY team Joe puts together is the best team in the history of IUP basketball...Seems like this years squad is shaping up to be the best, EVER, also!!!!!!!

      Keep trying


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment


      • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
        Ohhhhh...How soon IUP fans forget. Much conversation before the season about how "stacked" the team was and how Joe had gone "all in" to win a NC!!!

        You can go “all in” and have a stacked team and not win. Joe went all in and he was “stacked” by your definition. They went 30-3 and went home early. Such is life.

        The team that normally wins the trade deadline in any sport doesn’t win the last game.

        Your way hasn’t worked either. “How soon (WL) fans forget.”


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hawks16 View Post
          Just throwing this out there: I'm told IUP for at least the last several years has operated with 10 scholarship equivalences. Add to it that Dante was going tuition-free the last four years, really makes you wonder why Joe only plays 7 and sometimes one of them is a walk-on. Granted, the non-American players probably cost a few extra dollars than someone from Indiana High.

          We’ve debated this for years. It’s just the way he does things. None of us necessarily agree.

          He’s quick to doghouse a guy too. He’d make 6 guys’ tongues drag if he had to for a night. With the depth he has on this roster, I would to see him run 10 guys, but I think regularly playing any more than 7 is a very large ask.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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          • Re: Iup basketball

            Originally posted by IUP24 View Post
            You can go “all in” and have a stacked team and not win. Joe went all in and he was “stacked” by your definition. They went 30-3 and went home early. Such is life.

            The team that normally wins the trade deadline in any sport doesn’t win the last game.

            Your way hasn’t worked either. “How soon (WL) fans forget.”


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            Regardless of the style of play or the talent, the road to the Elite 8, much less the finals, is not easy. All the coaches are good and the teams' players play well together in executing the coach's style.
            Sometimes it comes down to which team is hot, or which team can best exploit a mismatch.

            For example, WLU was very young and did not match up well with ESU. However, to mitigate this, they moved Meininger to the point which confused the defensive alignment of ESU, leaving Smith unsure as to whether to stay underneath or come all the way out to the 3 point line. This flipped the mismatch to WL's advantage just enough to eke out a win, with the likely fatigue factor causing great ESU shooters to miss 4 foul shots late.

            Against Va State, WLU was behind until about 4 minutes left in the game, against a very talented team. They went to a 3-2 zone, I think, which disrupted Va States offense and countered their superior athletic ability.

            As Mercyhurst, WLU was not able to dominate the boards offensively or shoot lights out to counter the incredible physical presence of Smith in addition to their good shooters and balanced team. In this case, the mismatch could not be offset.

            My point is that there is a fine line between winning and losing once you get to the regional.


            Ideally, one would like the meet the team that you don't match up well against in the finals (or better yet, have someone else upset them on the other side of the bracket!).
            Takes some luck IMHO, unless you are like NW Missouri this year who met the eye test of a mid major D1 team. Even then, Mercyhurst gave them all they could handle.
            Last edited by Columbuseer; 07-18-2019, 11:05 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
              Regardless of the style of play or the talent, the road to the Elite 8, much less the finals, is not easy. All the coaches are good and the teams' players play well together in executing the coach's style.
              Sometimes it comes down to which team is hot, or which team can best exploit a mismatch.

              For example, WLU was very young and did not match up well with ESU. However, to mitigate this, they moved Meininger to the point which confused the defensive alignment of ESU, leaving Smith unsure as to whether to stay underneath or come all the way out to the 3 point line. This flipped the mismatch to WL's advantage just enough to eke out a win, with the likely fatigue factor causing great ESU shooters to miss 4 foul shots late.

              Against Va State, WLU was behind until about 4 minutes left in the game, against a very talented team. They went to a 3-2 zone, I think, which disrupted Va States offense and countered their superior athletic ability.

              As Mercyhurst, WLU was not able to dominate the boards offensively or shoot lights out to counter the incredible physical presence of Smith in addition to their good shooters and balanced team. In this case, the mismatch could not be offset.

              My point is that there is a fine line between winning and losing once you get to the regional.


              Ideally, one would like the meet the team that you don't match up well against in the finals (or better yet, have someone else upset them on the other side of the bracket!).
              Takes some luck IMHO, unless you are like NW Missouri this year who met the eye test of a mid major D1 team. Even then, Mercyhurst gave them all they could handle.

              I’ve said for the last two years that the Atlantic region is very deep.

              The days of penciling in IUP and West Liberty as the final two are over. The PSAC is better. So is the MEC. And Virginia State is pretty good. And for the most part, the winner of this region has always acquitted themselves well in the Elite 8.

              Boat thinks there’s one way to win, which is West Liberty’s approach. In reality, no team in the Atlantic has figured out what the right formula is.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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              • Re: Iup basketball

                Originally posted by IUP24 View Post
                I’ve said for the last two years that the Atlantic region is very deep.

                The days of penciling in IUP and West Liberty as the final two are over. The PSAC is better. So is the MEC. And Virginia State is pretty good. And for the most part, the winner of this region has always acquitted themselves well in the Elite 8.

                Boat thinks there’s one way to win, which is West Liberty’s approach. In reality, no team in the Atlantic has figured out what the right formula is.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                I agree with you. For example, with a different bracket, I think Mercyhurst could have gone much deeper into the Elite 8.

                I would add that there is no "right" formula to figure out that will always win the region or go to the finals. Some styles may reduce variation in high performance due to better game theory strategies, which is reflected in their very high winning % over a decade.

                However, as you said, that does not guarantee success. Every year there seems to be a school that catches lightning in a bottle and has a group of players that come along once in ten years at their school and who have great chemistry and are perfect fits for their style. NW Missouri comes to mind this past year.

                Comment


                • Re: Iup basketball

                  Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                  I agree with you. For example, with a different bracket, I think Mercyhurst could have gone much deeper into the Elite 8.

                  I would add that there is no "right" formula to figure out that will always win the region or go to the finals. Some styles may reduce variation in high performance due to better game theory strategies, which is reflected in their very high winning % over a decade.

                  However, as you said, that does not guarantee success. Every year there seems to be a school that catches lightning in a bottle and has a group of players that come along once in ten years at their school and who have great chemistry and are perfect fits for their style. NW Missouri comes to mind this past year.
                  Mercyhurst had a great 2nd and 3rd day of the Regional. Keep in mind IUP blew them off that same floor 7 days earlier in the PSAC title game. And, Fairmont had them dead in the water in Round 1 and blew it.

                  None of that matters, obviously.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Iup basketball

                    Originally posted by hawks16 View Post
                    Just throwing this out there: I'm told IUP for at least the last several years has operated with 10 scholarship equivalences. Add to it that Dante was going tuition-free the last four years, really makes you wonder why Joe only plays 7 and sometimes one of them is a walk-on. Granted, the non-American players probably cost a few extra dollars than someone from Indiana High.

                    They switched up something this year. They have (12) scholarship players. The max is near (10) in dollars, so, they broke a couple up (i.e. some are sharing money). For a long time Joe did mostly full rides. With (12) 'money' players you see the deeper bench.

                    It's a good roster. He can let the three freshmen practice all year and be ready for the following season. Or, in the event of an injury, one will be available.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Iup basketball

                      I believe that schollys are operated on a percentage of the players tuition and not their $ value. So for example, an in-state player and an out of state player on 50% scholly's would together count as one Scholly Equivalency even though the in-state player is receiving $2737 in actual scholly $ and the out of state player is receiving $3958.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Iup basketball

                        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                        I believe that schollys are operated on a percentage of the players tuition and not their $ value. So for example, an in-state player and an out of state player on 50% scholly's would together count as one Scholly Equivalency even though the in-state player is receiving $2737 in actual scholly $ and the out of state player is receiving $3958.
                        Joe's current roster: (7) of the (12) receiving money are PA residents.

                        I'm pretty sure the PASSAHE sets the equivalency value at the cost of (1) in-state tuition ... whatever that number is (say, $17,000/year). The 'state schools' in the PASSHE have to spend real dollars (not like the privates -- Gannon, Mercyhurst and Seton Hill -- who can just discount tuition to whatever they want). So, in that example, (10) rides means Joe needs to come up with $177,000 a year in real dollars.

                        He's one of the only ones with those kind of financial resources. Clarion types are lucky to have (3) equivalencies to divide over the roster.

                        So, when he's taking out of state players, he gets charged out of state tuition (which comes out of that $177,000 pot).

                        You long-time IUP fans will recall this was one of the factors that Gary Edwards 'allegedly' got caught up in while at IUP. He was accused of trying to get out of state players in-state residency (to save on their 'cap' hit).

                        So, it's very likely he got creative with dollars this season being that he has (12) players receiving money. I'd guess the Top 6 are all full rides and the next 7 are splitting the final (4) equivalencies.

                        Obviously the factor we don't know is how they funnel in academic money, etc. There's ways to get extra money, obviously. Joe has routinely had high-education types so that's certainly probably a factor.
                        Last edited by IUPbigINDIANS; 07-19-2019, 07:04 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Iup basketball

                          Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
                          Not bringing up the whole Dante 4-year era intentionally but, well, things will certainly be different without him. Put it that way.

                          They will be tremendously different without him. I think Joe will also be much different.

                          That era was what it was. Dante did a lot of great things here. Joe also kept him on the court when he wasn't doing a lot of great things, too.

                          Should the Dante and Cobo 4-year run have won more than two NCAA games? Probably.
                          As an outsider can you explain what issues the IUP community had with Dante?

                          Comment


                          • Re: Iup basketball

                            Originally posted by PSACfan1 View Post
                            As an outsider can you explain what issues the IUP community had with Dante?
                            You ask 10 different people and you'll get 10 different answers.

                            My opinion:

                            Early in his career he probably wasn't ready for the minutes he received. Joe is famous for having a very short, quick leash with players on the floor. Dante never had a short leash. Ever. Did his minutes cost them an NCAA trip his freshman year (Norfleet's senior season)? Maybe.

                            Don't get me wrong. He won them a lot of games. He lost them a lot of games, too. He was extremely turnover-prone in his younger years. I think the consensus was if he had a different last name he'd have been on the bench a lot during his freshman and sophomore seasons. Instead he was playing heavy minutes.

                            Joe's not dumb. He knew that criticism was coming from the day he signed Dante. He was viewed as pretty arrogant by most although I never really saw it. He talked a lot during games -- but, they all talk a lot during games. He just had a target on him being the preppy, wealthy white kid on a very good team. Look at how many people came after him in games -- Micah Till, Trey Staunch, etc. He brought some of it on himself. But, not all of it.

                            I've 'heard' things weren't always peachy in the locker room the past four years. There was also the rumor Malik wanted to redshirt last year. They had the talent to make all four tournaments in his tenure. Should Dante have been the PG all of those first three years? That's probably up for debate. And, that, certainly has added to the fan disconnect.

                            Make no mistake he had a really strong senior season. In fact, one could make the case he carried them down the stretch. His game against West Chester in the PSAC semifinals was one of the best performances I've ever seen by an IUP player -- and that says a lot. His defense his senior year was night and day different from the first three years. He also finally quit trying to be Allen Iverson with the ball.

                            He did have an injury-riddled career. He almost always played through it, though.

                            Statistically, he's an IUP Hall of Fame player. I don't think that can even be argued. How history views his four-year tenure ... we'll see. Stat-wise, he had a better career than DeVante Chance and many other high-profile PG's. He had a very good career overall. The March results weren't real great, however.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Iup basketball

                              Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
                              You ask 10 different people and you'll get 10 different answers.

                              My opinion:

                              Early in his career he probably wasn't ready for the minutes he received. Joe is famous for having a very short, quick leash with players on the floor. Dante never had a short leash. Ever. Did his minutes cost them an NCAA trip his freshman year (Norfleet's senior season)? Maybe.

                              Don't get me wrong. He won them a lot of games. He lost them a lot of games, too. He was extremely turnover-prone in his younger years. I think the consensus was if he had a different last name he'd have been on the bench a lot during his freshman and sophomore seasons. Instead he was playing heavy minutes.

                              Joe's not dumb. He knew that criticism was coming from the day he signed Dante. He was viewed as pretty arrogant by most although I never really saw it. He talked a lot during games -- but, they all talk a lot during games. He just had a target on him being the preppy, wealthy white kid on a very good team. Look at how many people came after him in games -- Micah Till, Trey Staunch, etc. He brought some of it on himself. But, not all of it.

                              I've 'heard' things weren't always peachy in the locker room the past four years. There was also the rumor Malik wanted to redshirt last year. They had the talent to make all four tournaments in his tenure. Should Dante have been the PG all of those first three years? That's probably up for debate. And, that, certainly has added to the fan disconnect.

                              Make no mistake he had a really strong senior season. In fact, one could make the case he carried them down the stretch. His game against West Chester in the PSAC semifinals was one of the best performances I've ever seen by an IUP player -- and that says a lot. His defense his senior year was night and day different from the first three years. He also finally quit trying to be Allen Iverson with the ball.

                              He did have an injury-riddled career. He almost always played through it, though.

                              Statistically, he's an IUP Hall of Fame player. I don't think that can even be argued. How history views his four-year tenure ... we'll see. Stat-wise, he had a better career than DeVante Chance and many other high-profile PG's. He had a very good career overall. The March results weren't real great, however.
                              Thanks for the summation... Obviously the initial leap was made on my end that he was getting favoritism for the obvious reasons, but like you said whether he was deserving or not he still would have gotten the same criticism. It sure sounds like he's made a great case toward the end of his career at IUP though.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Iup basketball

                                Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
                                Joe's current roster: (7) of the (12) receiving money are PA residents.

                                I'm pretty sure the PASSAHE sets the equivalency value at the cost of (1) in-state tuition ... whatever that number is (say, $17,000/year). The 'state schools' in the PASSHE have to spend real dollars (not like the privates -- Gannon, Mercyhurst and Seton Hill -- who can just discount tuition to whatever they want). So, in that example, (10) rides means Joe needs to come up with $177,000 a year in real dollars.

                                He's one of the only ones with those kind of financial resources. Clarion types are lucky to have (3) equivalencies to divide over the roster.

                                So, when he's taking out of state players, he gets charged out of state tuition (which comes out of that $177,000 pot).

                                You long-time IUP fans will recall this was one of the factors that Gary Edwards 'allegedly' got caught up in while at IUP. He was accused of trying to get out of state players in-state residency (to save on their 'cap' hit).

                                So, it's very likely he got creative with dollars this season being that he has (12) players receiving money. I'd guess the Top 6 are all full rides and the next 7 are splitting the final (4) equivalencies.

                                Obviously the factor we don't know is how they funnel in academic money, etc. There's ways to get extra money, obviously. Joe has routinely had high-education types so that's certainly probably a factor.
                                There's a difference between the number of player receiving scholarship $ and the max number of scholarship equivalencies a school can offer. The max number of equivalencies is static across the DII landscape regardless of the tuition charged by individual schools. A DII coach can, and often does split scholly's into partial's that he can give across the whole team. Take you observation about Clarion having only 3 schollys. That may be true but the HC could still put all 12 of his players on scholly...but only 25% schollys. A fully funded team like IUP could likewise put all 12 of its players on scholly but there schollys would be for 83% of their tuition.

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