Iup basketball

[Ship69]

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying it's already here.

If it would have took $20k in NIL for Tomiwa to stay at IUP ... I think it could have been arranged.

D2 NIL is obviously going to be very small potatoes compared to D1. But, it's already started.

I don't doubt what you say, but I think it will be the death knell for competitive athletics at a lot of the struggling schools in Pa. and elsewhere. I attended grad school at Northwestern and it's always been a struggle for them to keep up with the Big 10 arms race, although they've done well in women's sports this year. When you see Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State basically ginning up a statewide fanbase for NIL, I just don't see some of the schools competing. The only reason NU is at all competitive is attributable for a few sugar daddies such as Pat Ryan, whose recent donation of $480 million means he has contributed over $700 million to the school. He's basically funded about half the cost of the planned new $800 million football stadium. I have mixed feelings about that. Think of the scholarship funds we could set up at any of our schools with even a fraction of that type of money.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I don't doubt what you say, but I think it will be the death knell for competitive athletics at a lot of the struggling schools in Pa. and elsewhere. I attended grad school at Northwestern and it's always been a struggle for them to keep up with the Big 10 arms race, although they've done well in women's sports this year. When you see Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State basically ginning up a statewide fanbase for NIL, I just don't see some of the schools competing. The only reason NU is at all competitive is attributable for a few sugar daddies such as Pat Ryan, whose recent donation of $480 million means he has contributed over $700 million to the school. He's basically funded about half the cost of the planned new $800 million football stadium. I have mixed feelings about that. Think of the scholarship funds we could set up at any of our schools with even a fraction of that type of money.

Other side of the coin, though, is you could already make the case the PSAC is an extremely uneven playing field (and has been for a long, long time). And, que IUPNation, that's even after the 'IUP Rule' was implemented.

There's probably only a handful of programs with followings strong (crazy) enough to get in to the NIL world. In football, I'd say IUP, Shepherd and Slippery Rock would all be candidates.

In basketball, I could see IUP getting started with it very soon. Joe has a lot of powerful boosters. Gannon would be a candidate with Gary Miller.

No doubt when you start waiving money at these potential transfers on top of a full ride ... it would shake up the landscape even more.

But, as I said, it's already such an uneven playing field. In football, for instance, we have PASSHE schools (not even mentioning the privates) with 25-28 scholarships playing against fellow division teams with 4-6 scholarships. I mean, it doesn't get much more uneven. If IUP Football has a 7-4 regular season, the brass would want Tort fired. If Clarion goes 7-4, they'd toss a parade. It's just very different worlds within the same divisions.

NIL could be the path for our top football teams to finally make a little more headway once they get out of the region.

[Fightingscot82]

Other side of the coin, though, is you could already make the case the PSAC is an extremely uneven playing field (and has been for a long, long time). And, que IUPNation, that's even after the 'IUP Rule' was implemented.

There's probably only a handful of programs with followings strong (crazy) enough to get in to the NIL world. In football, I'd say IUP, Shepherd and Slippery Rock would all be candidates.

In basketball, I could see IUP getting started with it very soon. Joe has a lot of powerful boosters. Gannon would be a candidate with Gary Miller.

No doubt when you start waiving money at these potential transfers on top of a full ride ... it would shake up the landscape even more.

But, as I said, it's already such an uneven playing field. In football, for instance, we have PASSHE schools (not even mentioning the privates) with 25-28 scholarships playing against fellow division teams with 4-6 scholarships. I mean, it doesn't get much more uneven. If IUP Football has a 7-4 regular season, the brass would want Tort fired. If Clarion goes 7-4, they'd toss a parade. It's just very different worlds within the same divisions.

NIL could be the path for our top football teams to finally make a little more headway once they get out of the region.

Can you imagine the shady sh*t Armenti would have been arranging if there was NIL 15 years ago?

[Ship69]

Other side of the coin, though, is you could already make the case the PSAC is an extremely uneven playing field (and has been for a long, long time). And, que IUPNation, that's even after the 'IUP Rule' was implemented.

There's probably only a handful of programs with followings strong (crazy) enough to get in to the NIL world. In football, I'd say IUP, Shepherd and Slippery Rock would all be candidates.

In basketball, I could see IUP getting started with it very soon. Joe has a lot of powerful boosters. Gannon would be a candidate with Gary Miller.

No doubt when you start waiving money at these potential transfers on top of a full ride ... it would shake up the landscape even more.

But, as I said, it's already such an uneven playing field. In football, for instance, we have PASSHE schools (not even mentioning the privates) with 25-28 scholarships playing against fellow division teams with 4-6 scholarships. I mean, it doesn't get much more uneven. If IUP Football has a 7-4 regular season, the brass would want Tort fired. If Clarion goes 7-4, they'd toss a parade. It's just very different worlds within the same divisions.

NIL could be the path for our top football teams to finally make a little more headway once they get out of the region.

While certainly true, that's been largely a development in the 21st century. Shifting demographics and changing coaches seem to have resulted in a wholesale shift in recent years. I'm just saying it could get even worse. In the long run that's bad for the league as a whole, including top squads, because they get used to ho-humming their way past inferior competition in the area and then get hammered when they get out of the region and face opponents with fully their resources (or more). Certainly, the IUP dominance in basketball is a relatively recent thing. They had some nice years in the '90s and early 2000s, but had plenty of competition for league championships. They won one championship during the entire two-decade period of the '70s and '80s when schools such as Mansfield and Cheyney were viable and at times very good basketball schools. Of course that's all down the tubes now.

I don't know if NIL will help the top football teams in our region as the top teams in other regions will have just as many resources and probably less recruiting competition on average. And it might throw our region even more out of balance.

With the current financial state of many schools (and not just in the PSAC), I'd say the football limit of 36 scholarships is a bar too high for many (can you ever see most of the present PSAC getting anywhere near that?). It might be time for a fourth division, somewhere between the current D2 and D3 — perhaps a limit of 20 or something in that region. You might even get some of the better D3 schools to hop on that train. The schools that are doing fine in D2 could stay there.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

While certainly true, that's been largely a development in the 21st century. Shifting demographics and changing coaches seem to have resulted in a wholesale shift in recent years. I'm just saying it could get even worse. In the long run that's bad for the league as a whole, including top squads, because they get used to ho-humming their way past inferior competition in the area and then get hammered when they get out of the region and face opponents with fully their resources (or more). Certainly, the IUP dominance in basketball is a relatively recent thing. They had some nice years in the '90s and early 2000s, but had plenty of competition for league championships. They won one championship during the entire two-decade period of the '70s and '80s when schools such as Mansfield and Cheyney were viable and at times very good basketball schools. Of course that's all down the tubes now.

I don't know if NIL will help the top football teams in our region as the top teams in other regions will have just as many resources and probably less recruiting competition on average. And it might throw our region even more out of balance.

With the current financial state of many schools (and not just in the PSAC), I'd say the football limit of 36 scholarships is a bar too high for many (can you ever see most of the present PSAC getting anywhere near that?). It might be time for a fourth division, somewhere between the current D2 and D3 — perhaps a limit of 20 or something in that region. You might even get some of the better D3 schools to hop on that train. The schools that are doing fine in D2 could stay there.

The 70s and 80s are starting to go pretty far back but IUP's run started in the early 90s. Aside from Joe's first two teams, they've been a pretty consistent power within the PSAC since around 1993 or so. I do agree the league was much more balanced back then. I've said forever the 94-95 team would have beat any of Joe's teams, and also a couple of Gary Edwards' teams would have also beat some of Joe's better teams.

For purposes of this conversation, I don't want to confuse (or, rather, mix) scholarships and NIL. Obviously they are very different things.

If you can land one die-hard, business-owning booster ... you can change the landscape of how you recruit -- and the level of whom you recruit. And, it's not the under-the-table style deals from Blue Chips in the 90s. It's all perfectly legal.

So, if (as an example) I wanted to offer each of Joe's scholarship players $10,000 each for each season they play here through the NIL arrangement ... that's all perfectly legal and would be a tremendous tool for Joe to use on the recruiting trail.

To put it in perspective from a local example, Akron's starting group and rotation were said to all have made around $30,000 each in NIL last year for men's basketball. That's in the MAC. Imagine what Kentucky's rotation made last year.

Part of this is just something to talk about in late May ... but, it is coming to D2.


If you want to be sick, look up what the Bayou Barbie and the gymnast made down at LSU from NIL's last year -- upward of 7 figures each.

[Columbuseer]

I agree NIL will appear in D2. The question is to what degree and what will be the impact on the competitive landscape? D1 athletic donations are an order of magnitude higher than d2.

In d1, in the past, boosters donate to the university athletic dept. for various projects, such as facility improvements or non revenue sports. The open question is: will these donors shift their gifts to NIL and earmark it for fb or bb specific players?

[Ship69]

I agree NIL will appear in D2. The question is to what degree and what will be the impact on the competitive landscape? D1 athletic donations are an order of magnitude higher than d2.

In d1, in the past, boosters donate to the university athletic dept. for various projects, such as facility improvements or non revenue sports. The open question is: will these donors shift their gifts to NIL and earmark it for fb or bb specific players?

And actually, NIL for high school players has been approved in Pa. and many other states. Pure amateur sports at any level are largely a thing of the past, and of course it wasn't always that clean in the past.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Jack reported on the radio this morning IUP has signed (6) players.

Our count is at (5) players.

Some of us were assuming there was another post player close to signing. Perhaps Jack knows and slipped up a bit before IUP formally announced it?

[Ship69]

The 70s and 80s are starting to go pretty far back but IUP's run started in the early 90s. Aside from Joe's first two teams, they've been a pretty consistent power within the PSAC since around 1993 or so. I do agree the league was much more balanced back then. I've said forever the 94-95 team would have beat any of Joe's teams, and also a couple of Gary Edwards' teams would have also beat some of Joe's better teams.

For purposes of this conversation, I don't want to confuse (or, rather, mix) scholarships and NIL. Obviously they are very different things.

If you can land one die-hard, business-owning booster ... you can change the landscape of how you recruit -- and the level of whom you recruit. And, it's not the under-the-table style deals from Blue Chips in the 90s. It's all perfectly legal.

So, if (as an example) I wanted to offer each of Joe's scholarship players $10,000 each for each season they play here through the NIL arrangement ... that's all perfectly legal and would be a tremendous tool for Joe to use on the recruiting trail.

To put it in perspective from a local example, Akron's starting group and rotation were said to all have made around $30,000 each in NIL last year for men's basketball. That's in the MAC. Imagine what Kentucky's rotation made last year.

Part of this is just something to talk about in late May ... but, it is coming to D2.


If you want to be sick, look up what the Bayou Barbie and the gymnast made down at LSU from NIL's last year -- upward of 7 figures each.

I'm not arguing that IUP didn't have good teams some years back, but the continual dominance of the PSAC by 2-3 teams is a relatively recent occurrence. In football, although Ship hasn't won a title since 2009, I felt the Zulli and Zapoticky teams could be competitive with about anyone in the league on a given day. It's been a while since I've had that feeling. Basketball, even with the recent IUP surge, has been somewhat more competitive as you can put together a decent BB team with 2-3 studs and some good role players. But it's becoming almost impossible for the Mansfields, Clarions, and Lock Havens to build consistent teams. If they do get good players, they're gone in a year or two. While of course all of us want our teams to be successful I can handle Ship not being in the hunt every year if the teams are somewhat competitive. I got no real pleasure from watching Ship demolish Lock Haven last year as I knew we had a so-so team. It was just that Lock Haven was good deal worse. I think there are liable to be more shakeups in the PSAC before long.

[hawks16]

To remotely even think IUP shouldn’t take this guy back, you’d have to be a complete moron!

I highly doubt he comes back but I’d certainly welcome him back with open arms as a fan. He’s a talented star that brings winning energy game in and game out!

This will be a good litmus test for Joe and the future of the program in regard to the transfer portal. Tort came flat out and said players are free to test the waters of the portal, but if you do you're not coming back to the IUP team. Will Joe have that same mantra? Does it matter if the guy is the conference player of the year? Not saying Tomiwa wants to come back to IUP, but it's a good conversation starter. His future is as an overseas pro, which he can accomplish doing so from IUP. But if he wants to go to March Madness...then maybe the Northeast Conference is the way to go?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

This will be a good litmus test for Joe and the future of the program in regard to the transfer portal. Tort came flat out and said players are free to test the waters of the portal, but if you do you're not coming back to the IUP team. Will Joe have that same mantra? Does it matter if the guy is the conference player of the year? Not saying Tomiwa wants to come back to IUP, but it's a good conversation starter. His future is as an overseas pro, which he can accomplish doing so from IUP. But if he wants to go to March Madness...then maybe the Northeast Conference is the way to go?

Well, just remember that Tort has said that about players in general. He hasn't been tested yet with one of his stars wanting to test the waters. Had Duane Brown entered the portal and then decided to stay ... do you really think Tort would have turned him down? I sure don't. Shepherd sure didn't turn away Tyson Bagent after he tested the waters.

Regardless of coach speak, all players aren't created equal -- nor is their value. Joe, my opinion, would have taken Tomiwa back in a second.

As for Tomiwa, most close to the Towson program think he's going to be a rotation player but not a starter. I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility he could be back to IUP after next year if things don't work out. Just a hunch. He does have two years left.

[TheBigCat2192]

In the long run that's bad for the league as a whole, including top squads, because they get used to ho-humming their way past inferior competition in the area and then get hammered when they get out of the region and face opponents with fully their resources (or more.

You might call this “Super Region 1”.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Roster update:


Guard

Dallis Dillard
Jaylen Stewart
Garvin Clarke
Josh Petteno
Denzel Kabasele
Anthony Watson
Jordan Lambert




Forward

Ethan Porterfield
Damir Brooks
Dolan Waldo
Gabriel Romero-Sanz



Of note:

* Lambert signed over the weekend. He is a high school recruit from Hopewell High School in Hopewell, VA.

* No confirmed status on whether KJ Rhodes is staying or not. He did graduate a few weeks back.

* Other than adding a couple walk-ons, that's probably the roster.

[IUPalum]

Roster update:


Guard

Dallis Dillard
Jaylen Stewart
Garvin Clarke
Josh Petteno
Denzel Kabasele
Anthony Watson
Jordan Lambert




Forward

Ethan Porterfield
Damir Brooks
Dolan Waldo
Gabriel Romero-Sanz



Of note:

* Lambert signed over the weekend. He is a high school recruit from Hopewell High School in Hopewell, VA.

* No confirmed status on whether KJ Rhodes is staying or not. He did graduate a few weeks back.

* Other than adding a couple walk-ons, that's probably the roster.

I feel like one more big could help. Very thin if there was an injury.

[Ship69]

Roster update:


Guard

Dallis Dillard
Jaylen Stewart
Garvin Clarke
Josh Petteno
Denzel Kabasele
Anthony Watson
Jordan Lambert




Forward

Ethan Porterfield
Damir Brooks
Dolan Waldo
Gabriel Romero-Sanz



Of note:

* Lambert signed over the weekend. He is a high school recruit from Hopewell High School in Hopewell, VA.

* No confirmed status on whether KJ Rhodes is staying or not. He did graduate a few weeks back.

* Other than adding a couple walk-ons, that's probably the roster.

Really heavy on guards. They certainly won't want anything to happen to Porterfield.