Iup basketball

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Iup basketball

D1 basketball has incredibly physically gifted players and media promotes it heavily and of course d1 schools have far more alumni and fans. I see some amazing physical feats in D1.

Speaking for myself, here is why I prefer GOOD D2 basketball.
1. The mastery of the fundamentals - passing, FTs, shooting, dribbling. It is amazing how many D1 athletes cannot shoot a FT reliably or pass against trapping pressure or take just plain DUMB shots. AAU ball is hurting skill development.
2. Team offense and defense - they actually pass the ball to more than two players before taking a shot.
3. They tend to listen to the coach and not make bonehead plays.
4. The are STUDENTS first, then athletes; The Adidas scandal at D1 is just the tip of the iceberg.
5. Cost for fans is reasonable - both admission and concessions (maybe I exclude some schools based on this forum).
6. If I ignore the attributes that one is born with and cannot control (i.e., height, fast twitch muscles, arm length, etc.), overall I think D2 players have better basketball skills. They are just 2-4 inches too short for their position or are not in the upper 1 percentile for quickness or jumping ability.

I tend to weigh these factors more, but I acknowledge I am way out in the lunatic fringe when compared to other fans.

That's just the rub at IUP these days--- it is not economical nor reasonable to pay the insane prices that the KCAC wants. It used to be a pretty sweet deal years ago. I agree with you.

I would add:

7. The players in DII seem to stay more or less for four years. Nothing drives me as crazy as these one and done hot shot prospects at the big schools. The NBA needs to do what the NFL does where you cannot enter the draft until you are three years removed from high school. It would obviously make for a much better college game as well as for much better finished and ready products for the NBA.

Your thoughts here were good ones!

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[Columbuseer]

Re: Iup basketball

I wonder how many people really like D-II men's basketball? Just speaking for myself I know that I really don't care much for it or at least until they get into the NCAAs in March. I like to follow it then. But I would much prefer to watch the D-I heavies on the tube than to sit and watch PSAC men's hoops at an overpriced arena. The women's game at least seemed to be it's own thing. D-II men just seemed to be a too watered down version of what you watch on television with the likes of North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, et al.

I guess I'm not really into D-II football that much either but really do like to follow IUP. But I suppose in the last analysis, to each his own.

I still say that if the KCAC would set some more realistic prices in regards to tickets and concessions then they would no doubt draw much better.

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D1 basketball has incredibly physically gifted players and media promotes it heavily and of course d1 schools have far more alumni and fans. I see some amazing physical feats in D1.

Speaking for myself, here is why I prefer GOOD D2 basketball.
1. The mastery of the fundamentals - passing, FTs, shooting, dribbling. It is amazing how many D1 athletes cannot shoot a FT reliably or pass against trapping pressure or take just plain DUMB shots. AAU ball is hurting skill development.
2. Team offense and defense - they actually pass the ball to more than two players before taking a shot.
3. They tend to listen to the coach and not make bonehead plays.
4. The are STUDENTS first, then athletes; The Adidas scandal at D1 is just the tip of the iceberg.
5. Cost for fans is reasonable - both admission and concessions (maybe I exclude some schools based on this forum).
6. If I ignore the attributes that one is born with and cannot control (i.e., height, fast twitch muscles, arm length, etc.), overall I think D2 players have better basketball skills. They are just 2-4 inches too short for their position or are not in the upper 1 percentile for quickness or jumping ability.

I tend to weigh these factors more, but I acknowledge I am way out in the lunatic fringe when compared to other fans.

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Iup basketball

I think the 'iconic' Indiana Mall is walking The Green Mile.

Two of its anchor stores are now closed and it's rumored the next one (The Bon Ton) isn't far behind. There are numerous other empty units inside.

I'd be shocked if it's open in a year or two. It's a nice (big) piece of land so it won't stay vacant long. I'd guess it gets torn down and something new goes up.

The movie theater there is still kind of neat (to me, anyway). I saw The Goonies there in the mid-80s. It still looks exactly the same in the lobby. They did some interior renovations inside the theater (seats, etc). Capri Pizza is still booming. I'd assume they relocate in town somewhere. Good stuff. And, yes, Capri Pizza still has the 25-cent TVs on the tables from the 1970s.

Not sure if it is true or not---but somebody in town today told me that Capri Pizza is leaving the mall and relocating elsewhere. The person thought the Pizza House but they weren't sure exactly. I guess the end of the mall that they are in is completely dead and all boarded up like a ghost town.

I think we can conclude that the moronic tax reassessment was the death knell of the last vestiges of Indiana County business.

Rodney Ruddock is one hell of a guy. Can you believe that idiot was actually a two-star general in the Army? The total d*** would have lost at least half of the soldiers under his command if he ever had to lead them into battle. Brainless dolt. Graduate of the Army War College. What a sad joke. I guess he just sat at the reassessment hearings like a scared little mouse with his head down. What wonderful leadership he offered along with the other worthless county commissioners!

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[Bart]

Re: Iup basketball

Malls are dying everywhere. It's not just an Indiana thing although they could have at least nenovated the Indiana Mall once over the last 38 years. It's still 1979 in there.

The Exton Mall here in affluent Chester County is getting sadder by the day. There is only one mall that is decline proof in the entire state...King of Prussia.

I do agree that The Home office is probably more at fault with their genius scheduling to cause attendance declines than anything else......

I spent my share of time at the Exton Mall and Granite Run Mall. I heard they tore the Granite Run Mall down, and are building housing/shopping. They should have torn down the Springfield Mall after Sylvia Seigrist's mass shooting there. I was driving by the mall that day during the aftermath, and remember calling my family to see if they were home safe.

[IUPNation]

Re: Iup basketball

I wonder how many people really like D-II men's basketball? Just speaking for myself I know that I really don't care much for it or at least until they get into the NCAAs in March. I like to follow it then. But I would much prefer to watch the D-I heavies on the tube than to sit and watch PSAC men's hoops at an overpriced arena. The women's game at least seemed to be it's own thing. D-II men just seemed to be a too watered down version of what you watch on television with the likes of North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, et al.

I guess I'm not really into D-II football that much either but really do like to follow IUP. But I suppose in the last analysis, to each his own.

I still say that if the KCAC would set some more realistic prices in regards to tickets and concessions then they would no doubt draw much better.

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It's IUP so I would want to watch them.

[IUPNation]

Re: Iup basketball

I think the 'iconic' Indiana Mall is walking The Green Mile.

Two of its anchor stores are now closed and it's rumored the next one (The Bon Ton) isn't far behind. There are numerous other empty units inside.

I'd be shocked if it's open in a year or two. It's a nice (big) piece of land so it won't stay vacant long. I'd guess it gets torn down and something new goes up.

The movie theater there is still kind of neat (to me, anyway). I saw The Goonies there in the mid-80s. It still looks exactly the same in the lobby. They did some interior renovations inside the theater (seats, etc). Capri Pizza is still booming. I'd assume they relocate in town somewhere. Good stuff. And, yes, Capri Pizza still has the 25-cent TVs on the tables from the 1970s.

The first movie I ever saw at the Indiana Mall theaters was "Revenge Of The Nerds" in the Summer of 1984...my first "semester" on campus (I was a Summer-January freshman)

The Exton Mall saw the JC Penny's close and now part that is now this bowling entertainment kind of a place. The Sears has to be on the target list soon. The Macy's is so run down inside the store. It's nowhere near as nice as the Macy's at King of Prussia which is only 15 minutes away. The Boscov's is okay but like most Boscov's it's so packed with merchandise that is all looks ticky tacky. The mall stores are half empty. Main Line Health took over a portion of the mall store area for medical office space. They renovated the mall 15-16 years ago and now it's all kinda sad. I only go in there if I absolutely have too.....and usually only to go to the food court which is the only part that draws crowds on most days.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Your point is very valid. The era today ... with the High Def age with everybody owning a 60" TV ... I think people just prefer to stay home. I, too, love watching the 'big time' college games.

That said, I'd still take a 'live' IUP basketball game any day over anything on TV. That's just me. I like the sounds, speed, crowd (or lack of) and general excitement of seeing it live that I just personally don't get at home. I've been in the KCAC when it's packed to the walls. I've been in there with 500 people. Doesn't make a huge difference to me. I think what I've grown to like most about seeing the games live is watching the slow transformation of the teams over the course of the season. It's only Christmas and IUP is a completely different team now than it was in November. Night and Day. They were very frustrating to watch a month ago. I'll say the Dec 26 edition of Bravado's team would beat the Nov. 26 version by 20 points.

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Iup basketball

I wonder how many people really like D-II men's basketball? Just speaking for myself I know that I really don't care much for it or at least until they get into the NCAAs in March. I like to follow it then. But I would much prefer to watch the D-I heavies on the tube than to sit and watch PSAC men's hoops at an overpriced arena. The women's game at least seemed to be it's own thing. D-II men just seemed to be a too watered down version of what you watch on television with the likes of North Carolina, Duke, Kentucky, et al.

I guess I'm not really into D-II football that much either but really do like to follow IUP. But I suppose in the last analysis, to each his own.

I still say that if the KCAC would set some more realistic prices in regards to tickets and concessions then they would no doubt draw much better.

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[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

Many theories, I suppose.

Here are the actual numbers for men's basketball attendance (avg home gate):

2017-18 - 739 (Ironically, the one game played over winter break actually brought up the average)

2016-17 - 1,367

2015-16 - 1,363

2014-15 - 1,330

2013-14 - 2,090

2012-13 - 1,586

2011-12 - 1,275

2010-11 - 1,035


Amazingly, this year's current average of 739 still leads the entire PSAC. The vast majority of schools are under 350 per game -- some well under. The KCAC does a pretty black-and-white job with the numbers. Everybody is scanned at the entrances. So, unlike Miller Stadium, these should be pretty accurate. Or, at least, very, very close.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

I think the 'iconic' Indiana Mall is walking The Green Mile.

Two of its anchor stores are now closed and it's rumored the next one (The Bon Ton) isn't far behind. There are numerous other empty units inside.

I'd be shocked if it's open in a year or two. It's a nice (big) piece of land so it won't stay vacant long. I'd guess it gets torn down and something new goes up.

The movie theater there is still kind of neat (to me, anyway). I saw The Goonies there in the mid-80s. It still looks exactly the same in the lobby. They did some interior renovations inside the theater (seats, etc). Capri Pizza is still booming. I'd assume they relocate in town somewhere. Good stuff. And, yes, Capri Pizza still has the 25-cent TVs on the tables from the 1970s.

[IUPNation]

Re: Iup basketball

IUP basketball games at the KCAC ARE WAAAAY TOO EXPENSIVE! This issue has certainly been discussed before ad nauseam. I've talked to a ton of people who all say this. Plus, after the Rodney Ruddock tax reassessment for the county people are really struggling to have that extra disposable income dollars to attend games or shop at local stores (look at how many stores have closed in the Indiana Mall in the past year or so). But what the heck, that bloated buffoon Ruddock still gets to give his Flag Day speeches and have his ugly mug in the local edition going to the White House or meeting the Homer City Wildcats. So who the hell cares anymore anyways. If people of the area were really so stupid to vote someone like him into office and retain him then I guess at the end of the day you basically got what you deserve. But too bad everybody else has to suffer for it!

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Malls are dying everywhere. It's not just an Indiana thing although they could have at least nenovated the Indiana Mall once over the last 38 years. It's still 1979 in there.

The Exton Mall here in affluent Chester County is getting sadder by the day. There is only one mall that is decline proof in the entire state...King of Prussia.

I do agree that The Home office is probably more at fault with their genius scheduling to cause attendance declines than anything else......

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Iup basketball

IUP basketball games at the KCAC ARE WAAAAY TOO EXPENSIVE! This issue has certainly been discussed before ad nauseam. I've talked to a ton of people who all say this. Plus, after the Rodney Ruddock tax reassessment for the county people are really struggling to have that extra disposable income dollars to attend games or shop at local stores (look at how many stores have closed in the Indiana Mall in the past year or so). But what the heck, that bloated buffoon Ruddock still gets to give his Flag Day speeches and have his ugly mug in the local edition going to the White House or meeting the Homer City Wildcats. So who the hell cares anymore anyways. If people of the area were really so stupid to vote someone like him into office and retain him then I guess at the end of the day you basically got what you deserve. But too bad everybody else has to suffer for it!

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[IUPalum]

Re: Iup basketball

I wish I could be a season ticket holder but with me living in Erie and my schedule, that's just not possible. I don't understand why the locals come out to these games other than the prices. It's a great product and let's face it, there is nothing else to do in Indiana!!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

I was checking out some PSAC stats this morning. One glaring one: attendance.

It's always bad but it's REAL bad this year.

IUP men's attendance is WAY down ... as in approaching half of last season's gate average.

Even the Fairmont game ... played almost to the day of last years Fairmont game ... drew 700 less this year. IHS was home during both games. Last year the game got over 1,500. This year it was announced at 801. This year the tickets were even free at various locations all over town.

If you look at the yearly numbers, IUP men's attendance has dropped consistently over the past 5 years.

The conference does it no favors. Rivalry games are played over break. The break is 7 weeks long. Marketing is terrible. Slippery Rock at IUP on a Monday night over break? Are you kidding? Put that game in late January on a Saturday night and you get 3,000. Now ... they'll be lucky for 700. The league cries about revenue and then does this stupid stuff.

Nonetheless, the numbers are the numbers. It wasn't long ago the season average was near 2,500 per game. Right now, for this season, it's in the 700s. That's a drastic decline.

It's too expensive for starters. Tickets are double and triple every other conference school. Consession prices are major league level. Not all see the value in a $7 can of Miller Light.

But, prices were high four years ago, too. So ... why is nobody coming out to see Bravado Joe anymore?

We aren't talking about a few-percentage-point dip. This is extreme.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Iup basketball

I always wonder what that big IHS team would have been like with Dante on it ... had he not gone to Kiski Prep.

Carter is pretty legit. He's definitely a scholarahip-level player. If Joe doesn't offer him many others will. He reminds me a lot of what Malik Miller looked like at Farrell.

They lose Blake, Hutton and Glover after this season. Armoni and Keyes will come off redshirt status.

You're right ... there have been a lot of walk-ons over the years but not many scholarship players. That jump from Fifth Street to Wayne Ave is a pretty big one.