OT: D1

[Fightingscot82]

I'm trying to consider all perspectives and the more I do, the more it cements my initial feelings.

College football players are college students who play football and should be treated more like such. If I wanted to transfer from Edinboro to Slippery Rock, I didn't have to get my advisor's consent nor did it affect my ability to enroll right away. So I'm okay with players transferring before graduation. I do think there should be some way for a coach to express concern that a transfer to a division/key future opponent could result in shared intel so maybe a process in place for negotiating that. Graduate transfers should be a non-issue.

Technically a lot of coaches are at-will employees and if they can be terminated at any time without cause should be allowed to do the same. However, I'm a "see it through" and "go down swinging" personality, and I've worked in fields that have on & off seasons, so yeah I think it should be looked down upon for a coach quitting before the season is over. I especially disrespect the decision of a school to ask, encourage, or allow a coach to leave his/her team before the season is complete. A university would never respect a professor who resigned in the middle of the semester to start immediately at a new university. Same goes in other fields. Can you imagine if an accountant or auditor switched jobs in the middle of tax season?

I think the same sentiment informs my opinion on players sitting out bowl games. Yes, they can do what they want, but they're still quitting on their team before the season is over. See it through. Eventually we'll start seeing players sit out regular season games if they have solid draft products and the team is going nowhere. But I also think a fuller playoff helps. Alabama doesn't have future first round guys sit out.

[Matt Burglund]

I wonder how bad this could get. Like, if a player who is believed to be a consensus first-round pick, is on a team that's 3-3 in October, might he pack it in and "prepare for the draft"?

Could it extend to basketball? Could there be a day when a player with an NBA future opts out of the conference and NCAA tournaments to "prepare for the draft"?

[IUPMonk]

I understand that but the team is playing so technically they are quitting the team. i don't know how else you can explain it. It's not like there is an online opt-out of meaningless bowl game form. They are just deciding that they don't want to do it and nobody can make them.

We can't explain it nor does any explanation we attept to give matter. The definitive opinion of wether an opt out player quits on his teams lies with his teammates and I can tell you for a fact no player on Pitt thinks Kenny Pickett quit on them.

[iupgroundhog]

I guess, yes, they are quitting. But, I don't think the non-playoff teams really care. They in turn get to pimp out top draft picks in recruiting, etc.

The players' ultimate goal is to play on Sunday for those big checks ... not the who-cares-bowl.

I think it's bad but I don't have a solution. But if it is too much of a risk for some players it's just a matter of time until every player who projects as getting drafted will opt out of bowl games. Forget about the playoffs, too, because the money is going to take over.

I read that Georgia has 4 players opting out and they are in the national championship. So, it doesn't matter. I predict it will destroy any competitive element for college football playoffs.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I understand that but the team is playing so technically they are quitting the team. i don't know how else you can explain it. It's not like there is an online opt-out of meaningless bowl game form. They are just deciding that they don't want to do it and nobody can make them.

I guess, yes, they are quitting. But, I don't think the non-playoff teams really care. They in turn get to pimp out top draft picks in recruiting, etc.

The players' ultimate goal is to play on Sunday for those big checks ... not the who-cares-bowl.

[iupgroundhog]

It's not quitting the team. Less than 3% of college players make the NFL

If you have a chance to be in that 3% ... let alone a Round 1 ... it's just a business decision. That QB who blew out his knee last night probably just cost himself $10m.

Bowls are just another chance to pimp out players. The players are just getting smarter.

Kenny Pickett was the prime example. Sure, he wanted to play. But, end of day, nobody gives a F about the Peach Bowl. He's now going round one and will have a massive, life-altering signing bonus.

If you aren't in the playoff and are a Round One ... bowls aren't worth the risk. The day is coming when a guy in the playoff opts out. For that kind of coin ... hard to blame them.

I understand that but the team is playing so technically they are quitting the team. i don't know how else you can explain it. It's not like there is an online opt-out of meaningless bowl game form. They are just deciding that they don't want to do it and nobody can make them.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Question; So when a player opts out of a bowl game it is just basically quitting the team or is there some formal opt-out procedure?

It's not quitting the team. Less than 3% of college players make the NFL

If you have a chance to be in that 3% ... let alone a Round 1 ... it's just a business decision. That QB who blew out his knee last night probably just cost himself $10m.

Bowls are just another chance to pimp out players. The players are just getting smarter.

Kenny Pickett was the prime example. Sure, he wanted to play. But, end of day, nobody gives a F about the Peach Bowl. He's now going round one and will have a massive, life-altering signing bonus.

If you aren't in the playoff and are a Round One ... bowls aren't worth the risk. The day is coming when a guy in the playoff opts out. For that kind of coin ... hard to blame them.

[iupgroundhog]

Question; So when a player opts out of a bowl game it is just basically quitting the team or is there some formal opt-out procedure?

[Bart]

Can the coaches be held to the same? Worse industry than used car salesmen.

Contracts don't mean a thing.

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It depends who writes them. Every business and pro sports team uses them for a reason. If the contract is written where a coach has to stay or pay, and leaves without a legitimate legal excuse that would be a breach of that contract and there would be consequences. If that is not the case, let's just back to a handshake and put lawyers out of business. " It don't mean a thing If it ain't got that swing."

[IUPbigINDIANS]

For schools that can offer scholarships, perhaps the athlete should sign a four year contract in exchange for the money. If they leave before the four years, they must reimburse the school. There are programs where certain professions get government funded education when they agree to live and serve in certain areas. Let's do it with athletes who use up my scholarship dollars.

Can the coaches be held to the same? Worse industry than used car salesmen.

Contracts don't mean a thing.

[Bart]

But that system didn't hold athletes hostage in a situation they didn't like. There were limitations e.g. in that situation they could transfer down in NCAA classification without a time penalty. They could transfer within the same classification but had to sit out. I think there is some obligation to the school. They made a commitment and, to some extent, individuals have to be responsible for their decisions.

For schools that can offer scholarships, perhaps the athlete should sign a four year contract in exchange for the money. If they leave before the four years, they must reimburse the school. There are programs where certain professions get government funded education when they agree to live and serve in certain areas. Let's do it with athletes who use up my scholarship dollars.

[Matt Burglund]

And yes, Matt, the "grad transfer" doesn't sit entirely right, either.

[iupgroundhog]

Transferring out is nothing new. IUP built their reputation on transfers. It was D1 athletes, now it has filtered down to D2 players leaving early. It reminds me of when the sixties culture hit the small towns in the early seventies. It takes time to filter down. Anyway if players don't love the school and program, it would be better for all if they leave before they infect everyone.

But that system didn't hold athletes hostage in a situation they didn't like. There were limitations e.g. in that situation they could transfer down in NCAA classification without a time penalty. They could transfer within the same classification but had to sit out. I think there is some obligation to the school. They made a commitment and, to some extent, individuals have to be responsible for their decisions.

[jrshooter]

In many cases, they aren't admitted to the institution like regular students are and their college experience and relationship with the institution are much different. I am not a lawyer but this stuff gets played out in courts and then becomes law, policy, and reality.

It all comes down to the rights of the individual versus the rights of the institution, whether it's a private enterprise, public entity, or non-profit.

To go back in time, I see this movement as starting when Curt Flood challenged the system in MLB by refusing to play for the Phillies after his trade from the Cardinals in 1970. That was the birth of free agency in professional sports. Now we are seeing it finally trickle down to college sports.

l think if the impact is bad for the game overall, it is not good. I think it must be limited. If you look at free agency in professional sports, there are rules and there are limitations. In my mind, that is what makes it work. Currently, college sports seems to have abandoned all rules and limitations. In any framework, that is a recipe for disaster.

That stated it much better than I did.

And yes, Matt, the "grad transfer" doesn't sit entirely right, either.

[Bart]

Transferring out is nothing new. IUP built their reputation on transfers. It was D1 athletes, now it has filtered down to D2 players leaving early. It reminds me of when the sixties culture hit the small towns in the early seventies. It takes time to filter down. Anyway if players don't love the school and program, it would be better for all if they leave before they infect everyone.