OT: D1

[Ship69]

There’s obviously a money element in play here however I don’t think that’s the whole story. I think that the other element in playoff format dissatisfaction is that we still haven’t collectively decided if the goal is to pick the best teams or the most deserving teams to play for all the marbles. Even if there were no money or television contracts involved I’m not sure we could find a playoff solution that satisfies both of those perspectives.

Well, they had most of the top-ranked teams involved in the playoffs this season. I don't think a super compelling case can be made for most of the teams that were left out. And money is a huge consideration. Somebody like ESPN does not want Ohio State playing Toledo in a playoff when they can have Ohio State vs. Tennessee.

[Ship69]

I think the fundamental difference between the two sports and their tournament structure is this....

1) There's traditionally one, maybe two, massive upsets in the NCAA Tournament every year. A ton of those games between the higher seeds and the little guys are often not all that competitive. But people don't care because there are 10 other games on in the exact same time slot that they can flip back and forth between. The football argument of why the B1G and SEC should get all the spots and why the others should never really have a fair shake was clearly seen this year. Every game had its own window. So as an example, when SMU was clearly overmatched by Penn State, EVERYBODY was watching and there was no alternative. There was an immediate indictment on SMU and the ACC, and blasphemy that committee had the gal to ever think this team should have made the field over Alabama. If there were 6 other games on at that same time, the reaction would not have been as visceral - and people mostly wouldn't have cared. That exists for all of the non-competitive early games.

2) The story of the little guy in basketball exists in March in the NCAA Tournament. The story of the little guy in football exists in September, October, and November. It's fundamentally different - and always has been. The little guy has no story in football anymore, because the current model eliminates them from the plot of the movie. The monumental upset can happen, but it no longer is part of the story because the team on the losing end probably still makes the playoff and can still win the national championship. The little guy gets their chance in March. They mostly eliminated the little guy altogether in football.

Yeah, but you'll never have room for as many "little guys" in football. You're never going to have a 68-team football playoff. At the D2 level we have a 28-team playoff that is made possible by an 11-game regular season schedule. And that produced a champion in Ferris State that pounded every one of its playoff opponents except, somewhat surprisingly, Slippery Rock. D3 has a huge playoff and has been dominated for years by teams such as Mount Union and Wisconsin-Whitewater. So there often isn't a lot of room for the so-called little guys, even at the lower levels. With the portal most teams operate at different levels, with the teams that are having more success raiding talent from the teams that aren't.

[TheBigCat2192]

Well, they had most of the top-ranked teams involved in the playoffs this season. I don't think a super compelling case can be made for most of the teams that were left out. And money is a huge consideration. Somebody like ESPN does not want Ohio State playing Toledo in a playoff when they can have Ohio State vs. Tennessee.

I would have considered dumping Tennessee for Miami, BYU, or even Army. I’m not sure Tennessee was qualitatively better than the first two and while they probably were better than Army I’m not sold that the difference was huge and Army had a conference championship on the resume which the committee showed some preference for in picking Clemson as an at-large.

[ctrabs74]

Yeah, but you'll never have room for as many "little guys" in football. You're never going to have a 68-team football playoff. At the D2 level we have a 28-team playoff that is made possible by an 11-game regular season schedule. And that produced a champion in Ferris State that pounded every one of its playoff opponents except, somewhat surprisingly, Slippery Rock. D3 has a huge playoff and has been dominated for years by teams such as Mount Union and Wisconsin-Whitewater. So there often isn't a lot of room for the so-called little guys, even at the lower levels. With the portal most teams operate at different levels, with the teams that are having more success raiding talent from the teams that aren't.

Don't forget about Mary Hardin-Baylor and North Central (Ill.), who've combined to win six of the last eight D3 national titles (North Central has won three of the last five, including this season's 41-25 win over Mount Union), Mount Union beating MHB in 2017 and SUNY Cortland (?!?) stunning North Central in 2023.

[IUP24]

Yeah, but you'll never have room for as many "little guys" in football. You're never going to have a 68-team football playoff. At the D2 level we have a 28-team playoff that is made possible by an 11-game regular season schedule. And that produced a champion in Ferris State that pounded every one of its playoff opponents except, somewhat surprisingly, Slippery Rock. D3 has a huge playoff and has been dominated for years by teams such as Mount Union and Wisconsin-Whitewater. So there often isn't a lot of room for the so-called little guys, even at the lower levels. With the portal most teams operate at different levels, with the teams that are having more success raiding talent from the teams that aren't.

You are missing my point. I’m not asking for a playoff to be expanded even more like D3 or D2.

I’m just explaining that in college football, the little guys had their moment in September, October, and November. They don’t get that moment anymore. They can no longer be the “1” in the loss column to derail a season. That was their moment. That moment is now gone. A lot of people LOVE that their moment, in the sense I explained, is gone. I don’t. For those who are fans of the best 3-4 teams in the best two conferences, I understand why they likely feel differently.

And yeah, you’re right. The portal has allowed teams to operate differently. And the money raked in by the heavy hitters making the playoff just continues to widen that gap regarding what they can spend to buy players off other rosters. This entire thing is all about money. I get that. I acknowledge that. I just don’t like the overall model and how the playoff contributes to just benefiting the elites. People may “like” the expanded playoff, but it’s not best for the overall health of the sport in my opinion.

[IUPNation]

You are missing my point. I’m not asking for a playoff to be expanded even more like D3 or D2.

I’m just explaining that in college football, the little guys had their moment in September, October, and November. They don’t get that moment anymore. They can no longer be the “1” in the loss column to derail a season. That was their moment. That moment is now gone. A lot of people LOVE that their moment, in the sense I explained, is gone. I don’t. For those who are fans of the best 3-4 teams in the best two conferences, I understand why they likely feel differently.

And yeah, you’re right. The portal has allowed teams to operate differently. And the money raked in by the heavy hitters making the playoff just continues to widen that gap regarding what they can spend to buy players off other rosters. This entire thing is all about money. I get that. I acknowledge that. I just don’t like the overall model and how the playoff contributes to just benefiting the elites. People may “like” the expanded playoff, but it’s not best for the overall health of the sport in my opinion.

Vanderbilt did help sink Alabamastan season. So there is that.

One loss should not equate season lost. Two is borderline. Three is you are toast. That is the new normal.

[IUP24]

Vanderbilt did help sink Alabamastan season. So there is that.

One loss should not equate season lost. Two is borderline. Three is you are toast. That is the new normal.

That’s your opinion. That’s fine. It’s not how I feel about the matter. I liked the drama. I liked the storyline. I liked teams chasing perfection.

It’s the new normal, sure. But it’s not the normal I prefer. But again, I understand how and why fans of large, elite programs have significantly different opinions.

[IUP24]

Report is that Ohio State’s athletic department operated at a deficit of 37 million dollars in 2024.

[TheBigCat2192]

Report is that Ohio State’s athletic department operated at a deficit of 37 million dollars in 2024.

Indiana let go of about 25 athletic department staffers a few weeks ago to cut costs. My guess is that if the House settlement goes through all the approval hoops and schools have to start revenue sharing and backpay we’re going to see major cuts to non-rev/Olympic sports and athletic department staffing to keep football, MBB, and maybe WBB and baseball afloat even at “big” schools.

[IUP24]

Indiana let go of about 25 athletic department staffers a few weeks ago to cut costs. My guess is that if the House settlement goes through all the approval hoops and schools have to start revenue sharing and backpay we’re going to see major cuts to non-rev/Olympic sports and athletic department staffing to keep football, MBB, and maybe WBB and baseball afloat even at “big” schools.

Yeah, that’s what’s going to happen. The arms race of football created this. I understand that many people wanted straight “pay for play” for a long time (I didn’t), but it is hilarious that when they got what they wished for, it’s shown that the model of paying people under the table was for more sustainable for the schools and supporters, and far more healthy for those in non-revenue sports.

[Chuck Norris]

Report is that Ohio State’s athletic department operated at a deficit of 37 million dollars in 2024.

Losing Jim Knowles to Penn State should help a little, lol.

[IUP24]

Losing Jim Knowles to Penn State should help a little, lol.

Lol...

Penn State had to cut somewhere between 10-20 million in operating expenses last year just to break even on their university's balance sheet. They are also financing a 750 million dollar renovation to Beaver Stadium over the next 10 years. I'm not sure their financial situation is any better.

What is actually interesting is the universities you are seeing across the board with these financial struggles are the ones who are involved in the football arms race and are the ones who we generally just assume rake in indefinite amounts of money. They may be making that money, but they are spending more than they are bringing in.

[IUPNation]

Losing Jim Knowles to Penn State should help a little, lol.

It’s interesting he bolted from Columbus to Happy Valley.

[IUPNation]

Lol...

Penn State had to cut somewhere between 10-20 million in operating expenses last year just to break even on their university's balance sheet. They are also financing a 750 million dollar renovation to Beaver Stadium over the next 10 years. I'm not sure their financial situation is any better.

What is actually interesting is the universities you are seeing across the board with these financial struggles are the ones who are involved in the football arms race and are the ones who we generally just assume rake in indefinite amounts of money. They may be making that money, but they are spending more than they are bringing in.

I don’t feel sorry for any of them.

[IUP24]

I don’t feel sorry for any of them.

I don't either. Numbers really bear out the exponential increase in spending started to boom tenfold with the inception of the College Football Playoff back in 2014. It created a playoff or bust mentality that drove spending because the carrot in front of the blueblood programs was the payout that occurred for simply making the College Football Playoff. It's another reason why I said then, and still believe now, that creating the College Football Playoff (while popular for many) was actually counterproductive for the overall health of the sport.

About 15 FBS schools would rather be football factories than fully functioning athletic departments or universities.