PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

Is Sprint considered an NCAA sport or is it Club status?

Club status would be the work around the equal gender item.

It's hard to come up with a scenario that doesn't end bad for those on the chopping block.

They're not NCAA but since they are managed by athletics they count for Title IX. At Edinboro this is how wheelchair basketball falls.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

They're not NCAA but since they are managed by athletics they count for Title IX. At Edinboro this is how wheelchair basketball falls.

I didn't realize that because I didn't think IUP's athletic department had anything at all to do with the Club hockey teams (which are actually ptetty good most years).

[Fightingscot82]

I didn't realize that because I didn't think IUP's athletic department had anything at all to do with the Club hockey teams (which are actually ptetty good most years).

For Title IX purposes, there's a distinction between club and varsity. I believe it might consider cheerleading and if so cheer would count but not the dance team.

[Fightingscot82]

Some updates on integration:

- It looks like a full on merger might be off the table. Middle States, the accrediting organization for this region, requires a main campus designation for multi campus schools. PASSHE has said that's off the table, so UWP & UEP or similar is done-zo.

- At least in the west, the goal is to have "three robust athletic departments." This makes it less likely that a revenue producing program will be cut. Reductions will probably be in staffing and operations/travel.

- Foundations and some of the Alumni Associations are legally separate 501c3 non-profits run by their own boards. The state can't force these organizations to merge or combine finances.

- Councils of trustees would combine but that also means a reduction in local governance of these schools.

- It's possible that we'll see all six schools retain their names and identities. Governance and administration will be centralized under a coalition. The descriptor for this entity I've heard from several is "holding company".

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Some updates on integration:

- It looks like a full on merger might be off the table. Middle States, the accrediting organization for this region, requires a main campus designation for multi campus schools. PASSHE has said that's off the table, so UWP & UEP or similar is done-zo.

- At least in the west, the goal is to have "three robust athletic departments." This makes it less likely that a revenue producing program will be cut. Reductions will probably be in staffing and operations/travel.

- Foundations and some of the Alumni Associations are legally separate 501c3 non-profits run by their own boards. The state can't force these organizations to merge or combine finances.

- Councils of trustees would combine but that also means a reduction in local governance of these schools.

- It's possible that we'll see all six schools retain their names and identities. Governance and administration will be centralized under a coalition. The descriptor for this entity I've heard from several is "holding company".

What does that really mean? Travel-wise, they still have to play road games. I suppose they can limit the recruiting budget and the amount of coin they reimburse to coaches for recruiting ... which obviously won't help recruiting. They can do a lot of 'out-n-backs' rather than stay in hotels.

I'm curious what 'staffing' would likely be scaled back. Our programs don't run like D1's ... they don't all have bogus positions like Director of Toilet Paper Replacement or the Assistant to the Assistant's Assistant Director of Basketball Operations. Usually everybody they have in D2 is needed -- and overworked.

To run D2 varsity sports there's only so much you can cut (it's already pretty bare bone).

[Fightingscot82]

What does that really mean? Travel-wise, they still have to play road games. I suppose they can limit the recruiting budget and the amount of coin they reimburse to coaches for recruiting ... which obviously won't help recruiting. They can do a lot of 'out-n-backs' rather than stay in hotels.

I'm curious what 'staffing' would likely be scaled back. Our programs don't run like D1's ... they don't all have bogus positions like Director of Toilet Paper Replacement or the Assistant to the Assistant's Assistant Director of Basketball Operations. Usually everybody they have in D2 is needed -- and overworked.

To run D2 varsity sports there's only so much you can cut (it's already pretty bare bone).

My guess and 100% guessing here: reducing some assistant coach positions to PT or GA, reimbursing based on receipts instead of mileage, and significantly reducing any team trips. Sending a volleyball team to Myrtle Beach for a 3 day tournament is expensive.

[iupgroundhog]

Some updates on integration:

- It looks like a full on merger might be off the table. Middle States, the accrediting organization for this region, requires a main campus designation for multi campus schools. PASSHE has said that's off the table, so UWP & UEP or similar is done-zo.

- At least in the west, the goal is to have "three robust athletic departments." This makes it less likely that a revenue producing program will be cut. Reductions will probably be in staffing and operations/travel.

- Foundations and some of the Alumni Associations are legally separate 501c3 non-profits run by their own boards. The state can't force these organizations to merge or combine finances.

- Councils of trustees would combine but that also means a reduction in local governance of these schools.

- It's possible that we'll see all six schools retain their names and identities. Governance and administration will be centralized under a coalition. The descriptor for this entity I've heard from several is "holding company".

I don't really follow what you're saying here. The official word from PASSHE from the outset has been to insist that these were not mergers.

The interesting difference between the west triad and the northern triad is the group of schools involved. In the west, Clarion, Cal, and Edinboro are all relative equals in size, curriculum, etc. However, the northern triad has 1 really small school (Mansfield), 1 small school (LHU), and 1 bigger school (Bloom) that appears to have a dominant role in the triad. The situation for the two triads may not end up following the same course.

I think we have to keep in mind that what's been discussed so far is the just the first step in what will be an evolutionary process. Implement the initial plans, meet the state's financial goals That's what we know. What we don't know is what happens to the schools over the next 2-4 years. Most likely, the schools in the west are going to continue to lose enrollment. That will have to be managed. Having the common administration for the 3 schools provides more flexibility (and removes the obstacle of parochialism) to make further changes/adjustments.

I don't see any winners amongst the west triad of schools. I think significant problems loom for them as this all moves forward. In the northern triad, I think for LHU there is a significant risk to the institution continuing with the same footprint. For Mansfield, I think it ultimately lets them avoid closure altogether. I think Bloom acquires a larger footprint as a result.

As for sports, what does "three robust athletic departments" mean? I don't think that kind of independence for the 3 athletic departments was spelled out in the recent PASSHE document relating to sports. I think as far as each athletic department is concerned they are going to lose quite a bit of autonomy. They aren't in control of their own destiny. I do think we can breathe easier because changes to sports will lag behind the academics/administrative by a couple of years.

[Bart]

My guess and 100% guessing here: reducing some assistant coach positions to PT or GA, reimbursing based on receipts instead of mileage, and significantly reducing any team trips. Sending a volleyball team to Myrtle Beach for a 3 day tournament is expensive.

Mansfield announced last month they will not renew contracts for full-time assistant coaches.

[playersdad]

As the athletic dept. of the state schools become more impacted by budget cuts I see (just my uneducated thoughts) programs cut and multiple programs cut to keep pace with Title IX. For example, I could see institutions that combine services offer only football at one school and their "partner" offering baseball at the other for example. I also see the privates (Seton Hill, Gannon, and Mercyhurst) benefitting as they can still have better than average facilities, offer scholarships, pay coaches, and recruit from other than their own county. I see them politely asked to find another conference shortly.

[Fightingscot82]

As the athletic dept. of the state schools become more impacted by budget cuts I see (just my uneducated thoughts) programs cut and multiple programs cut to keep pace with Title IX. For example, I could see institutions that combine services offer only football at one school and their "partner" offering baseball at the other for example. I also see the privates (Seton Hill, Gannon, and Mercyhurst) benefitting as they can still have better than average facilities, offer scholarships, pay coaches, and recruit from other than their own county. I see them politely asked to find another conference shortly.

So someone I know saw my post and reached out Wednesday night. They confirmed that Dr. Dale wants "three robust athletic departments". But bigger cuts like dropping revenue sports could come with a bad combination of enrollment declines and reduced state support.

There are some rumors that the state might suspend construction project funding until state revenue returns to normal. It's my understanding that Edinboro has identified its three athletic structures (Fieldhouse, stadium, dome) as three of its most critical facility needs.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

As the athletic dept. of the state schools become more impacted by budget cuts I see (just my uneducated thoughts) programs cut and multiple programs cut to keep pace with Title IX. For example, I could see institutions that combine services offer only football at one school and their "partner" offering baseball at the other for example. I also see the privates (Seton Hill, Gannon, and Mercyhurst) benefitting as they can still have better than average facilities, offer scholarships, pay coaches, and recruit from other than their own county. I see them politely asked to find another conference shortly.

Have you ever seen the facilities at those privates for the revenue sports?

Seton Hill rents a very average high school stadium and has a total dump of a basketball gym.

Mercyhurst has the worst basketball facility in the league and a so-so football stadium.

Gannon's football 'stadium' is terrible. The Hammermill is historic (and looks it).

[IUPNation]

Have you ever seen the facilities at those privates for the revenue sports?

Seton Hill rents a very average high school stadium and has a total dump of a basketball gym.

Mercyhurst has the worst basketball facility in the league and a so-so football stadium.

Gannon's football 'stadium' is terrible. The Hammermill is historic (and looks it).

[boatcapt]

Seems like the PASSHE "plan" to dig themselves out of the 10+ year decline it has experienced essentially leans on only four things:

1. Cutting academic, administrative and athletic staff.
2. Combining budgets.
3. Cutting and combining academic programs.
3. Hoping that cutting tuition by 25% increases the number of students to a break even point.

Really don't think these will result in six fully functional universities

[Sec10-A-14]

Have you ever seen the facilities at those privates for the revenue sports?

Seton Hill rents a very average high school stadium and has a total dump of a basketball gym.

Mercyhurst has the worst basketball facility in the league and a so-so football stadium.

Gannon's football 'stadium' is terrible. The Hammermill is historic (and looks it).

Have you seen Gannon's 80yd indoor turf practice facility

https://vimeo.com/user20370132/revie...151/e09d7c7ba3

[playersdad]

I've saw several of the athletic facilities in the PSAC. As a former player in the PSAC and coach lots of years ago I have noticed the decline of a lot of the facilities as well. Each univ., private or public, has their own facilities they may show more pride in than others. Gannon is stuck with their land situation but do have a very nice indoor facility. Hurst just very recently made improvements in their facilities. I don't believe the long term situation for these public univ. are good at all. No, none of them are closing shortly but over the next decade I do think they will repurposed somehow (such as the former Alliance College has been turned into a prison). The initial plan will show who can survive short-term and will give more credence to eliminating the others.