PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

I can empathize with that. In fact, I think just about everybody feels powerless.

The one phrase of yours I would question is "capacity to grow." Realistically, I don't think any of these western schools have the capacity to grow in terms of enrollment. I look at this western triad as a coordinated way of managing the decline. Or perhaps the obsolescence (gasp).

Yeah the amount of fish in the pond seems pretty static in the area.

The problem with online is that nearly every University is now an online school because of covid too. So saying that you can recruit within the US to grow kind of doesn't sound as realistic.

[Fightingscot82]

I can empathize with that. In fact, I think just about everybody feels powerless.

The one phrase of yours I would question is "capacity to grow." Realistically, I don't think any of these western schools have the capacity to grow in terms of enrollment. I look at this western triad as a coordinated way of managing the decline. Or perhaps the obsolescence (gasp).

I meant physical room and it's in reference to Edinboro. The current campus was built when enrollment was twice what it is now. Is that realistic? No. But there are a lot of spare dorm rooms and parking spaces for physical in person learning.

[Fightingscot82]

The system redesign document regarding athletics.

https://www.passhe.edu/SystemRedesig...p%20Charge.pdf

[IUPalum]

Steps closer to the demise of Edinboro!

[SRU 88]

The system redesign document regarding athletics.

https://www.passhe.edu/SystemRedesig...p%20Charge.pdf

A lot of questions are asked in the document; and neither side (PASSHE Administrators nor Alums of the 3 schools) are going to like the answers,

[IUPbigINDIANS]

A lot of questions are asked in the document; and neither side (PASSHE Administrators nor Alums of the 3 schools) are going to like the answers,

"If you don't like it ... learn to love it."

-- Ric Flair

[WarriorVoice]

"If you don't like it ... learn to love it."

-- Ric Flair

Where's the "WHOOOOOOOOO!"?

[iupgroundhog]

The system redesign document regarding athletics.

https://www.passhe.edu/SystemRedesig...p%20Charge.pdf

PSAC fans - meet reality. It's happening and it all has the potential to be more contentious than the academic side of things.

[Fightingscot82]

Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. They told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. They told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.

Wonder if Tort's and Lutz' phones are ringing off the hook yet with kids trying to transfer to IUP/SRU.

[complaint_hopeful]

Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. They told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.

That's in line with what some of us have been speculating.

When you look at tuition equalaing cost of a sport...that's going to be interesting. For instance a football coach that gets paid $125k + say 35k in health insurance and with a staff of 6 coaches, some making 50-60k+benefits...It's going to be tough to prove that breaks even with tuition. Then, cost of travel, Uniforms, etc.

There's no way a sport line basketball will break even. 12 players on a roster. Coaches making $100k. No way do those 12 players kick in 100k.

[IUPalum]

Didn't I say the demise of some schools sports programs were going to happen and some didn't want to agree? Some were very agressive to say they talk to people in the know and it wasn't going to happen... WRONG!!!!!!!!!

[Fightingscot82]

Didn't I say the demise of some schools sports programs were going to happen and some didn't want to agree? Some were very agressive to say they talk to people in the know and it wasn't going to happen... WRONG!!!!!!!!!

I think you'll see minimal cuts because the ROI analyses surprised many who never considered that athlete enrollment is directly tied to their sport. Spending reductions will be on coaching staffs, operational & travel cuts, etc. If a program is cut it won't be due to redundancy.

[ironmaniup]

Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. THow they told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.

How they decide to do the ROI is going to be the key, and its really tricky. First, the ROI for students normally depends on which classes they take, I suspect Athletes take a schedule that is more costly than average (more small classes), but I don't know. They do take fewer classes often. So the ROI is tuition - cost to offer specific classes + an administrative fee. Will this be the standard one used for academic departments ? You could argue it should be higher, since there are additional administrators, specifically for athletics, + the admins for academics. It could also be lower. since they may just claim the admin costs are part of the academic end. And then how do you figure the value of athletics for fund raising. Like most cases, they make a gut level decision, and make the numbers come out to support it later.

[iupgroundhog]

Had a good conversation today with someone who is a senior manager at a PASSHE school. They told me the athletics ROI is the key: expect these schools to kill any sport that doesn't bring in more tuition $ than its operating expenses. Also expect to see coaching staffs get trimmed using a formula using roster spots. Agreed with me that accreditation will require a main campus, people still need to be "in charge" when in person operations resume, and that relying on online instruction for the model is walking away from the high school market.

This plan could make sense if the entire system was being consolidated into one university each in the east and west. IUP the west hub and West Chester the east hub. But that's not the plan so it doesn't make as much sense without some sort of research or precedent to lead the change.

However, as described in the PASSHE document, how ROI is measured is a complex issue.

Title IX is a major issue (as always). Several of these "triad" schools have Title IX issues already. The merger can be a way to remedy that. If they were to adhere to a strict financial ROI model it would definitely discriminate against women's sports.

It will be interesting to see how they handle the 5 D1 sports involved.