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  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post

    They should have specialized the Campuses 15 years ago. Now they have hollowed out all of the good programs they had back then. It would take 5-10 years to build any reputation in a field to the point where students would travel to go there. If you had to go to Clarion for nursing, for instance, many Edinboro and certainly Cal students ( and IUP and Rock students, if they are included in the specialization -and they'd have to be for it to have a chance) would go elsewhere. That's not mentioning the food fight over which programs go where. Avoiding that was why they didn't do it when it was an obviously good idea.
    I don't think that at this stage ALL campuses need to be specialized, just within the merged triads. There's no benefit to be a limping version of a traditional campus. By specializing its more likely they'll have in person classes with humans they'll see outside of class and with professors they'll see on campus. Right now 3 or 4 classes are online taught by people at another campus and with students they'll never meet. Its gotta be such a hollow experience. Now if you want that truly comprehensive university experience with nearly full in person classes regardless of subject, you'll need to choose IUP or Slippery Rock or Shippensburg or East Stroudsburg or whatever.

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  • ironmaniup
    replied
    Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

    There is not an economy or sufficient population to sustain Mansfield as a community college. I'm curious what the population ages 18-40 where Mansfield is the closest college campus (2 year or 4 year). Mansfield is ideally located to be another Thaddeus Stevens but the faithful won't go for it. Mansfield has a historically well-regarded music program. Its not as large as West Chester but some consider it to be the standard bearer of the system. That's a weak argument to keep it a failing 4 year.

    After arguing with a friend working at one of the Penn West campuses I'm starting to think that the only path to viability is to break up majors by campus and have some specialization. Yeah, the buildings are designed for comprehensive universities but I just don't see 3 generalized campuses as sustainable. Make each campus attractive for a certain audience and lean into that.
    They should have specialized the Campuses 15 years ago. Now they have hollowed out all of the good programs they had back then. It would take 5-10 years to build any reputation in a field to the point where students would travel to go there. If you had to go to Clarion for nursing, for instance, many Edinboro and certainly Cal students ( and IUP and Rock students, if they are included in the specialization -and they'd have to be for it to have a chance) would go elsewhere. That's not mentioning the food fight over which programs go where. Avoiding that was why they didn't do it when it was an obviously good idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

    Then turn Mansfield into a community college. The fact there is really only one state system school located in the 5 county Philadelphia region is crazy. I mean yes there are 2 but Cheyney isn’t geared to serve a whole region. Yet there are three in a sparsely populated section and we wonder why so many of them are struggling.
    There is not an economy or sufficient population to sustain Mansfield as a community college. I'm curious what the population ages 18-40 where Mansfield is the closest college campus (2 year or 4 year). Mansfield is ideally located to be another Thaddeus Stevens but the faithful won't go for it. Mansfield has a historically well-regarded music program. Its not as large as West Chester but some consider it to be the standard bearer of the system. That's a weak argument to keep it a failing 4 year.

    After arguing with a friend working at one of the Penn West campuses I'm starting to think that the only path to viability is to break up majors by campus and have some specialization. Yeah, the buildings are designed for comprehensive universities but I just don't see 3 generalized campuses as sustainable. Make each campus attractive for a certain audience and lean into that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fightingscot82
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    It was written by Tim Shuey, a CU chief financial officer who resigned earlier this year. It is hard to misinterpret when buildings on all campuses are being torn down to help balance the budget, while Mansfied's new dorms remain empty with $110 million dollar bill.
    I'm curious how much is still owed on the residence halls at the consolidated campuses. We're a little over 10 years in on what were likely 30 year bonds on most of these projects.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    No, I get that but there are different ways to write the report, depending on one's perspective. Why did Tim Shuey resign?
    Seventeen days after the annual high-risk report, President Bashar Hanna sent on Jan. 4, 2024, via email to the faculty and staff that Tim Shuey, the previous holder of this position, has resigned.
    The email states, “He has relinquished all duties associated with the role of the position, effective immediately.”
    https://buvoice.com/6416/news/cu-def...er-in-the-red/

    What is your concern? CU is taking on water because SSHE tried to bail out Mansfield.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    It was written by Tim Shuey, a CU chief financial officer who resigned earlier this year. It is hard to misinterpret when buildings on all campuses are being torn down to help balance the budget, while Mansfied's new dorms remain empty with $110 million dollar bill.
    No, I get that but there are different ways to write the report, depending on one's perspective. Why did Tim Shuey resign?

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPNation
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    No, it's not. In terms of geography, it covers an entire quadrant of the state. In terms of accessibility, it's not overkill. Also, that entire quadrant of the state has only 1 community college, Luzerne County CC, outside of Wilkes-Barre, so that is not accessible for people living outside of a small radius around Wilkes-Barre.
    Then turn Mansfield into a community college. The fact there is really only one state system school located in the 5 county Philadelphia region is crazy. I mean yes there are 2 but Cheyney isn’t geared to serve a whole region. Yet there are three in a sparsely populated section and we wonder why so many of them are struggling.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Who wrote the report? Regardless, it seems like it is open to misinterpretation. Thanks for making me aware of the situation.
    It was written by Tim Shuey, a CU chief financial officer who resigned earlier this year. It is hard to misinterpret when buildings on all campuses are being torn down to help balance the budget, while Mansfied's new dorms remain empty with $110 million dollar bill.
    Last edited by Bart; 03-10-2024, 05:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    Problems loom without "system or legislative intervention" according to the report. Already, need base scholarships will be reduced by 1.5 million this fall, athletic and other waivers by $76,000, and also reduce out of state scholarships. They also lost $300,000 in Board of Governor scholarships because of the court decision on affirmative action. There are other cuts I could list, such as cutting programs, classes, and jobs to save $2 million, and and another $3 million with retirements.
    Who wrote the report? Regardless, it seems like it is open to misinterpretation. Thanks for making me aware of the situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    That may be true but what are you going to do about it. As you say, it was 2016, before CU came to be. Everybody knew this.

    There are a lot of things that I don't know. How that capital debt is dealt with is one of them. Is the debt held by Commonwealth University of Pennsylvania, PASSHE, or the state of Pennsylvania? Will students at CU be hurt financially by the debt in the form of higher tuition? I really don't know how servicing that debt works.
    Problems loom without "system or legislative intervention" according to the report. Already, need base scholarships will be reduced by 1.5 million this fall, athletic and other waivers by $76,000, and also reduce out of state scholarships. They also lost $300,000 in Board of Governor scholarships because of the court decision on affirmative action. There are other cuts I could list, such as cutting programs, classes, and jobs to save $2 million, and and another $3 million with retirements.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    Believe me, the Press-Enterprise is no friend of Bloomsburg University and are biased against the Bloom U. The amount of debt for each school was per student $1,527 at Bloom, $1,806 at Lock Haven, and $5,307 at Mansfield tells the tale. Mansfield has $110 million dollar debt due to 5 dormitories built in 2016; they were at 2,000 students, now at 1,300. Bloom and LHU share that debt now...it's on the books.
    That may be true but what are you going to do about it. As you say, it was 2016, before CU came to be. Everybody knew this.

    There are a lot of things that I don't know. How that capital debt is dealt with is one of them. Is the debt held by Commonwealth University of Pennsylvania, PASSHE, or the state of Pennsylvania? Will students at CU be hurt financially by the debt in the form of higher tuition? I really don't know how servicing that debt works.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    LCCC has several branch campuses, including 2 in Northumberland County: Shamokin and Watsontown. They have campuses in Lackawanna and Columbia Counties, and a few more.
    Can those be considered "branch campuses?" I've seen satellites of community colleges that were a room.

    My point was that the NE quadrant of PA is underserved by the community college system. I think that, looking ahead, that will benefit CU because CU can help fill that gap.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    If I have the time and can find this document I will read it. For now, I stand by my previous post. I believe if I have the time to do it, which I probably don't, I could pick apart the viewpoints of The Press-Enterprise. I think it a very biased accounting. "We knew this going in" also reinforces the idea that there should have been more calls to stop it, and there weren't. "Sour grapes" is not a phrase I use too often but it seems appropriate to use.
    Believe me, the Press-Enterprise is no friend of Bloomsburg University and are biased against the Bloom U. The amount of debt for each school was per student $1,527 at Bloom, $1,806 at Lock Haven, and $5,307 at Mansfield tells the tale. Mansfield has $110 million dollar debt due to 5 dormitories built in 2016; they were at 2,000 students, now at 1,300. Bloom and LHU share that debt now...it's on the books.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart
    replied
    Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
    No, it's not. In terms of geography, it covers an entire quadrant of the state. In terms of accessibility, it's not overkill. Also, that entire quadrant of the state has only 1 community college, Luzerne County CC, outside of Wilkes-Barre, so that is not accessible for people living outside of a small radius around Wilkes-Barre.
    LCCC has several branch campuses, including 2 in Northumberland County: Shamokin and Watsontown. They have campuses in Lackawanna and Columbia Counties, and a few more.

    Leave a comment:


  • iupgroundhog
    replied
    Originally posted by Bart View Post

    The 8 page debt analysis report that the Press quoted is a CU internal document to provide a quarterly financial update to the Chancellor Greenstein, not sour grapes. It was written by the CU CFO. Other comments are from an interview with the CU president, including "We have known about this since the integration and knew the university would be in high risk because of what we brought together." In fact it likely was the reason for the integration.

    Lock Haven has $49 million in debt spread across 2600 students. They demolished 2 dorms and have plans to level 2 more in 2025. They offloaded a science center to Clinton County Conservation District, and there are plans for the Clearfield Campus as a possible workforce development training site. They are trying to save money and align themselves with projected enrollment.
    If I have the time and can find this document I will read it. For now, I stand by my previous post. I believe if I have the time to do it, which I probably don't, I could pick apart the viewpoints of The Press-Enterprise. I think it a very biased accounting. "We knew this going in" also reinforces the idea that there should have been more calls to stop it, and there weren't. "Sour grapes" is not a phrase I use too often but it seems appropriate to use.

    Whether it's capital-expenditure related or related to enrollment, the environment has been known all along. It's too late to have this kind of a conversation. It's all one school now. Finger pointing isn't needed.

    Does Bloom want out now? It's too late. CU is written in law.
    Last edited by iupgroundhog; 03-10-2024, 12:07 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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