Originally posted by boatcapt
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Which is still 48th out of 50 states.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View PostSome number crunching:
PASSHE State provided budget in 2010-11: $465,197,000
PASSHE system-wide enrollment 2010-11: 119,513
Notional "per student" funding 2010-11: $3892
PASSHE State provided budget in 2020-21: $477,470,000 (2.7% increase over 2010-11)
PASSHE system-wide enrollment 2020-21: 93,704 (22% decline over 2010-11)
Notional "per student" funding 2020-21: $5095
Some observations:
PASSHE State funding is actually up over the 10 year period that enrollment has been falling.
In 2010-11 the PASSHE got a temporary infusion of federal cash in the form of the ARRA. That bloated the PASSHE budget beyond a taxpayer sustainable level.
PASSHE funding per student is up 31%.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
No, but with a better funding formula they can sustain current enrollment. Until rural broadband is improved, geographic access is necessary. I was visiting my in-laws last weekend and the highest speed internet available to them can't handle live streaming like Zoom or two simultaneous streams of recorded video like Netflix.
PASSHE State provided budget in 2010-11: $465,197,000
PASSHE system-wide enrollment 2010-11: 119,513
Notional "per student" funding 2010-11: $3892
PASSHE State provided budget in 2020-21: $477,470,000 (2.7% increase over 2010-11)
PASSHE system-wide enrollment 2020-21: 93,704 (22% decline over 2010-11)
Notional "per student" funding 2020-21: $5095
Some observations:
PASSHE State funding is actually up over the 10 year period that enrollment has been falling.
In 2010-11 the PASSHE got a temporary infusion of federal cash in the form of the ARRA. That bloated the PASSHE budget beyond a taxpayer sustainable level.
PASSHE funding per student is up 31%.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
The Trump Country folk surrounding IUP will absolutely not just reject it they'll also cry to any right-leaning news source just like the kid thrown out of class a couple years ago. Unfortunately it looks like an unforced error on IUP's part.
IMO, the best solution is for the powers that be to find a way to require student vaccinations. There is time to do that. The second best option is to allow vaccinated students to attend class mask-free, provided they can document the vaccination. That should encourage unvaccinated students to get vaccinated.
It's all about the vaccination.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
Excess capacity is the end result. Actually closing schools is an effective way of addressing excess capacity but that's not an option. Does anyone believe PASSHE as a system is going to get back to enrolement levels of 10+ years ago based on the changes they are making? Remember, hope is not a belief.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
And, when you add it all up, it says we just have too many state schools in PA.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
And, when you add it all up, it says we just have too many state schools in PA.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
There's not excess capacity if we recognize that adult learners are a real market and the way of the future. Beyond tech and trades, very few fields have pathways that avoid college credentials. Excess capacity for traditional-aged students who plan to live on on campus.
Student debt is MUCH higher than previous generations but hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years. Most student loan debt is held by people whose tuition costs crazy sums of money: doctors and lawyers. Less than 5% of all bachelors degree holders have $100k+ in student loans and when you remove those with MD and JD debt, its less than 1%.
The biggest driver of Millennial and Gen Z debt is decreased state funding and construction debt. Boomer managers for years pushed renovations and construction to pad resumes and thinking it would give that school a leg up on its competition. It backfired because all the competition was doing the same thing.
Small sample size but I personally know several kids (friends children) who are attending Duquesne and other similar schools ... with majors like nursing, marketing, etc. Granted, their parents largely look down at us lowly state schools, but the funny thing is the Duquesne nurse and the IUP nurse are going to get the same job and make the same amount of money.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
I agree that now is probably the normal level but the future HS graduation numbers are disturbing.
Not unique to this situation, but folks always want to find the single "reason" for a negative situation when the real answer is often very complex. Is it lack of PA HS graduates? Yes, but it is so much more including higher tuitions, skyrocketting student debt, competition from the trades, competition from discounted private schools, stagnate state budgets, and a realization that you really don't need a bachelors degree to succeed.
At the end of the day, all the reasons manafest in excess capacity.
Student debt is MUCH higher than previous generations but hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years. Most student loan debt is held by people whose tuition costs crazy sums of money: doctors and lawyers. Less than 5% of all bachelors degree holders have $100k+ in student loans and when you remove those with MD and JD debt, its less than 1%.
The biggest driver of Millennial and Gen Z debt is decreased state funding and construction debt. Boomer managers for years pushed renovations and construction to pad resumes and thinking it would give that school a leg up on its competition. It backfired because all the competition was doing the same thing.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
I agree that now is probably the normal level but the future HS graduation numbers are disturbing.
Not unique to this situation, but folks always want to find the single "reason" for a negative situation when the real answer is often very complex. Is it lack of PA HS graduates? Yes, but it is so much more including higher tuitions, skyrocketting student debt, competition from the trades, competition from discounted private schools, stagnate state budgets, and a realization that you really don't need a bachelors degree to succeed.
At the end of the day, all the reasons manafest in excess capacity.
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View Post
I tend to think the enrollment now is the 'normal' level for PASSHE and that the 2010 level was due to the education bubble.
I am sure that some kids choose to work on gas lines or other areas too. I just don't think it's a main factor. It's demographic, cost, brand, etc.
Not unique to this situation, but folks always want to find the single "reason" for a negative situation when the real answer is often very complex. Is it lack of PA HS graduates? Yes, but it is so much more including higher tuitions, skyrocketting student debt, competition from the trades, competition from discounted private schools, stagnate state budgets, and a realization that you really don't need a bachelors degree to succeed.
At the end of the day, all the reasons manafest in excess capacity.
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Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post
to ease certain people's fears, I guess. My gut feeling is that there are a small but vocal group of Faculty and parents expressing their fear for the upcoming Fall semester, I expect it to change since if the state mandates are over at that point, it will be pointless after the first weekend, and difficult to enforce. I doubt it will have much impact on enrollment one way or another.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
Are they required to wear them in the campus-owned dorms, too?
There won't be a mask seen in town other than those classrooms so what's the freaking point?
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Originally posted by complaint_hopeful View PostI would imagine that indoors on campus would cover housing. Now, in a room yourself...people likely won't wear them.
But yes...anywhere they go won't require masks...except on campus indoors. Seems pointless.
It's time to put the pandemic in the rear view mirror...and not try to cling to it.
I can already see it now at Miller Stadium ... every 6th seat and a mask requirement.
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