Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[oldyellaHer69]

Jimmies get first win of the season vs future NSIC member Dakota State. That’s more wins than SCSU, UMC& SMSU combined!

[zimmy21]

Jimmies get first win of the season vs future NSIC member Dakota State. That’s more wins than SCSU, UMC& SMSU combined!

Let's all take a journey back to 2015 when that MAY have been impressive.

[laker]

May as well add to the mayhem since we are talking about the past and the future. As to the present- former NSIC member is in second place in their new conference. 2. Upper Iowa (5-3, 4-1)

[Stanger86]

May as well add to the mayhem since we are talking about the past and the future. As to the present- former NSIC member is in second place in their new conference. 2. Upper Iowa (5-3, 4-1)

Yep, I think this is something that NSIC elite need to consider. People get this opinion that because schools like Jamestown, UMC and now SMSU (ugh) lose football games 62-0 with regularity, it means that they don't belong in Division II at all. However, I think there's a middle ground that's important to find because I don't think NSIC regular seasons are a true indicator of a program's potential for Division II success as a whole. I think it's similar to how within the last 20 years, teams got out of the MIAA and suddenly they were no longer thought of as the worst programs in Division II.

[Purple Mav Man]

Yep, I think this is something that NSIC elite need to consider. People get this opinion that because schools like Jamestown, UMC and now SMSU (ugh) lose football games 62-0 with regularity, it means that they don't belong in Division II at all. However, I think there's a middle ground that's important to find because I don't think NSIC regular seasons are a true indicator of a program's potential for Division II success as a whole. I think it's similar to how within the last 20 years, teams got out of the MIAA and suddenly they were no longer thought of as the worst programs in Division II.

I’ll speak for your so called ‘NSIC elite’. It seems like you’re making a point against yourself here though. Let Jamestown be D2 all they want. The title of the thread is Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC. Not into D2. This is proof there is a better D2 home for Jamestown. However we’re stuck with them due to their location and the conference’s desire to get back to even.

Geography isn’t a qualification, it’s a convenience.

[SW_Mustang]

Geography isn’t a qualification, it’s a convenience.

I disagree. It's absolutely a qualification and has been since the MIAA was founded in 1888 - I mean, it's literally in the name of their conference. The big conferences have obviously thrown that out the window, but it's also degraded the product in some regard.

Now - where it falls on the list of priority can be up for debate, sure. Of which I'm not making any claims (or arguments for or against the school), just that I do believe it is (or should be) a qualification for joining.

[Purple Mav Man]

I disagree. It's absolutely a qualification and has been since the MIAA was founded in 1888 - I mean, it's literally in the name of their conference. The big conferences have obviously thrown that out the window, but it's also degraded the product in some regard.

Now - where it falls on the list of priority can be up for debate, sure. Of which I'm not making any claims (or arguments for or against the school), just that I do believe it is (or should be) a qualification for joining.

That’s super that it’s in the name of their conference. How many teams in The Great Lakes Valley conference are near the Great Lakes? It’s right there in the name after all. They have 9 teams in Missouri and 1 in Iowa. Thats 2/3 of the conference, and they are hardly a ‘big’ conference.

I know this makes me an elitist in the eyes of some, but I think a team should bring more than geography when being added to a conference. It should be a factor, but not the only one. Doesn’t matter though, the NSIC office decided they prefer the easy path.

[SW_Mustang]

That’s super that it’s in the name of their conference. How many teams in The Great Lakes Valley conference are near the Great Lakes? It’s right there in the name after all. They have 9 teams in Missouri and 1 in Iowa. Thats 2/3 of the conference, and they are hardly a ‘big’ conference.

I never said it was perfect - in fact I actually acknowledged that the big conferences have broken this idea already. Conferences should be regional. We have 130+ pages of thread and not a single person has advocated for adding Valdosta or West Florida. Why, exactly?

I never called you an elitist either - I get we have the same avatar but our names aren't exactly close.

[SW_Mustang]

I will say using the GLVC as an example of regionality not being a prerequisite for membership though is hilarious. I wonder why they haven't targeted Western New Mexico for expansion lol.

[zimmy21]

Yep, I think this is something that NSIC elite need to consider. People get this opinion that because schools like Jamestown, UMC and now SMSU (ugh) lose football games 62-0 with regularity, it means that they don't belong in Division II at all. However, I think there's a middle ground that's important to find because I don't think NSIC regular seasons are a true indicator of a program's potential for Division II success as a whole. I think it's similar to how within the last 20 years, teams got out of the MIAA and suddenly they were no longer thought of as the worst programs in Division II.

Not sure where you think you are going with this? Jamestown hasn't even seen the field in D2 and they are getting embarrassed at their current bottom of the barrel conference, comparing their situation to UIU isn't just a little stretch.

[Purple Mav Man]

I never said it was perfect - in fact I actually acknowledged that the big conferences have broken this idea already. Conferences should be regional. We have 130+ pages of thread and not a single person has advocated for adding Valdosta or West Florida. Why, exactly?

I never called you an elitist either - I get we have the same avatar but our names aren't exactly close.

All good. It was just an easy one to poke out :) Again, not exactly a big conference breaking the trend though.

There was some talk in there somewhere about further schools, but not the SE schools you mention there. And I’m certainly not saying geography doesn’t matter, it just shouldn’t be the only factor.

Nope, you didn’t. I know you and Stanger are different. I also didn’t say you called me an elitist… haha. Hell, stanger hasn’t outright called me one either. Just indirect references.

[Purple Mav Man]

I will say using the GLVC as an example of regionality not being a prerequisite for membership though is hilarious. I wonder why they haven't targeted Western New Mexico for expansion lol.

I disagree. It's absolutely a qualification and has been since the MIAA was founded in 1888 - I mean, it's literally in the name of their conference.

Not arguing your regionalization aspect. But you stated it’s “literally in the name of the conference” and I pointed out that doesn’t matter. I guess I thought you’d understand 🤷🏼♂️

[SW_Mustang]

Not arguing your regionalization aspect. But you stated it’s “literally in the name of the conference” and I pointed out that doesn’t matter. I guess I thought you’d understand 🤷🏼♂️

You said geographic location was not a prerequisite to conference membership. I disagreed because conferences were literally founded on the basis of regionalization - the very first conference, the Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, founded in 1888, exclusively had members from Michigan.

It was in the name of the conference, and it's inarguable. The nomenclature of a conference really was a minor point in that post - I wanted to highlight how geographic location was such a big driving force in the creation of athletic conferences that they literally named the first one after it's geographic location.

I also acknowledged how some conferences don't operate that way presently. I was thinking of the Atlantic Coast Conference, which now operates nationally, and not just along the Atlantic coast. It is a situation literally nobody asked for. Ironically, the ACC would have been a better counterpoint to my claim that geography is indeed a qualification, rather than sharing a conference with a tighter footprint than the one the entire thread is a discussion about.

Astute readers will point out that the MIAA, after 110 years of exclusive Michigan membership, started allowing teams from neighboing Indiana to join (and Ohio for a 3 year period). They don't have members from New York and Kansas, probably because proximity... like... matters.

It was a simple disagreement. Sheesh! lol

[zimmy21]

I never said it was perfect - in fact I actually acknowledged that the big conferences have broken this idea already. Conferences should be regional. We have 130+ pages of thread and not a single person has advocated for adding Valdosta or West Florida. Why, exactly?

I never called you an elitist either - I get we have the same avatar but our names aren't exactly close.

I think you're overlooking that the point most of us are trying to prove is that adding Jamestown is at best expansion for expansions sake, or at worse cowardice. A couple of us more vocal folk on this page have asked for contraction. Or a split, which I'd be fine with.

[SW_Mustang]

All good. It was just an easy one to poke out :) Again, not exactly a big conference breaking the trend though.

There was some talk in there somewhere about further schools, but not the SE schools you mention there. And I’m certainly not saying geography doesn’t matter, it just shouldn’t be the only factor.

Nope, you didn’t. I know you and Stanger are different. I also didn’t say you called me an elitist… haha. Hell, stanger hasn’t outright called me one either. Just indirect references.

I saw this after my previous reply. My comment about moving to the SE was intended to come across as an extreme example. Point being, at some point it's "too far." That line is defined different for everyone. I agree - it's not the only qualification for entry. I'd have to look but I think I acknowledged that I wasn't making any claims for or against Jamestown, just that I felt like your statement came across as an absolute and that was what I disagreed with. Maybe it wasn't intended that way.

Aside from *ahem* maybe one school *cough* (and not the purple one) - I don't see any NSIC members and being elitist. Granted, I wasn't around for the NCC days - which seems to come up a lot in these discussions.