West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I think initial rating of 17th was due to player losses, questions about height and unknowns about 30 yr old new coach.
Yes, cold shooting night will test the toppers, especially against hot shooting opponent.

But there are encouraging observations so far in young season.
1. Many more great, not just good, 3 pt shooters lowers risk of all them being ice cold. Note different hot shooters from prior games:
Wvwc - french and meininger
Gsu - monterosa, Watson, saben
D&e- bolon, Griffin, Watson
Shu- bolon, Watson, french
Cheyney- bolon, Watson, meininger, Griffin, allen, saben,. French
2. To date, they have made 95 of 210 three point shots which is 45.2%. last year the team averaged 35.9% for entire season. Given the shooters they lost last year, that is a huge and unexpected improvement.
3. Increased sharing - 27 assists, + 17 turnover margin, 17 steals per game.

I expect some stats to tighten up as schedule gets tougher, but so far it is promising. These eye popping stats may have played a role in their climb to #9.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

#9 makes sense right now. Were seeing some very very good things right now that bode well for the rest of the year. As Columbus pointed out, greatly improved 3 point shooting as a team...multiple players are stepping up from 3 range...new coach is doing his best old coach imitation...etc. We'll see how they do when competition becomes tougher but so far so good. They have the look of a team that has a chance of making some noise.

There are some team in the MEC that were picked to finish pretty high that are on the verge of playing themselves out of contention for the regular season MEC title. Some pretty big games coming up (Notre Dame at WLU...WLU at Shepherd...WJ at Fairmont)!

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Marlon Moore in a boot last night in street clothes...Hopefully just an ankle sprain...Any word?

Another good performance from the Hilltoppers last night...the schedule will surely get tougher with each game...Probably played the worst of the MEC so far...Glenville, WVW and Urbana... But they are pounding them..

I expect Monty will get more quality shots / touches as the competition ramps up...

Great shooting and great pressure so far

[Layton]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Crutch off to the best start in school history at 5-0 down at Nova.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Marlon Moore in a boot last night in street clothes...Hopefully just an ankle sprain...Any word?

Another good performance from the Hilltoppers last night...the schedule will surely get tougher with each game...Probably played the worst of the MEC so far...Glenville, WVW and Urbana... But they are pounding them..

I expect Monty will get more quality shots / touches as the competition ramps up...

Great shooting and great pressure so far

If Ben coaches like Crutch, at some point around mid season he will shorten the bench somewhat with the minutes for the bottom two or three performers getting severely reduced. Think these "extra" minutes will go to the top five performers (usually the starters but not always) which should result in increased opportunities for Monty.

Biggest surprise by far so far this year has been Bolon...leading scorer AND leading rebounder. But the second biggest surprise has been Tyler Primmer...VERY solid stat line before earning a start in place of Meininger last night and he more than responded to the start with 11 points on 5 for 7 shooting and 5 rebounds in 19 minutes of work. I think these two have kind of overshadowed the two transfers we thought would be huge cogs this year.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Crutch off to the best start in school history at 5-0 down at Nova.

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see Nova listed in the others receiving votes section of the NABC poll next week! Well done sir...WELL DONE!!!

I wonder at which point coaches for bad programs start to sit up and go huuummmm...I wonder if I could do that here? Someone get me every tape you can on West Liberty and Nova this year!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's hard to assess WL at this point.

Cheyney (0-4)
Seton Hill (3-3)
D&E (1-3)
Glenville (0-6)
WVW (0-7)
Urbana (0-6)

Total: 4-29 record

The MEC games ... you guys can't help it those three stink. From a D2 follower's view ... just hard to see what's there so far.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's hard to assess WL at this point.

Cheyney (0-4)
Seton Hill (3-3)
D&E (1-3)
Glenville (0-6)
WVW (0-7)
Urbana (0-6)

Total: 4-29 record

The MEC games ... you guys can't help it those three stink. From a D2 follower's view ... just hard to see what's there so far.

It is but that's how WLU has always rolled. Early season is seen almost as "extended spring training" in baseball...practice were they refine the playing rotations and work on their "strokes" while stacking up W's and preparing for the meat of the MEC season and beyond. It isn't the "accepted" way to do things but WLU has never done things the "accepted" way. Can't argue with success though.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Not at all ... just saying it's hard to get a vibe if they are 'really' strong or just really good.

I can think of another school in the Atlantic I wished took 'somewhat' more of the same path with the non-conference.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Not at all ... just saying it's hard to get a vibe if they are 'really' strong or just really good.

I can think of another school in the Atlantic I wished took 'somewhat' more of the same path with the non-conference.

I agree that jury is still out. Some encouraging indicators that are somewhat independent of competition.
1. 4 players hitting over 50% of threes (at least 25 attempts each). Bolon is hitting 46% on 52 attempts but many of his are from NBA range. Team is averaging over 45% on over 200 attempts.

2. Incredible intensity and pressure on defense. Has to be exhausting. I bet their practices are knock down drag out battles.

3. No loss of efficiency or continuity among 12 players. They all play like starters.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's funny how the two leagues compare defense. What you call incredible intensity and pressure still has the losing team scoring almost 100 points. In the PSAC scoring in the 80s is like an offensive shootout.


It's amazing how different the two leagues are when it comes to average scores, style, etc.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's funny how the two leagues compare defense. What you call incredible intensity and pressure still has the losing team scoring almost 100 points. In the PSAC scoring in the 80s is like an offensive shootout.


It's amazing how different the two leagues are when it comes to average scores, style, etc.

They are just different styles of play. As Crutch said, you can win with many different styles, as long as you execute it.
Many traditional teams don't seriously start looking for a good shot until there are 15 seconds left on the shot clock. That tends to hold scores down and number of possessions per game.
Half-court defense and rebounding becomes dominant in more deliberate styles.

Looking at scores alone is probably not a reliable indicator of defensive intensity. West Lib wants to maximize the number of possessions and maximize the points per possession (i.e., 3 pt shot still beats a dunk). Their steals and forced turnovers per game reflects their intensity and effort. They are expending incredible amounts of energy. When I first saw West Lib play in 2009, I thought they must have been cross country runners, for they pressed while only playing 7 guys and were in unbelievable aerobic condition.

Of course, as West Liberty scores quickly, it gives the opponent more possessions (less turnovers) so the scores tend to be higher. Also the West Lib pressure can result in easy baskets for the opponent early in the shot clock, which improves the opponents score. The interesting thing about West Lib is that they rarely take bad shots, even though they are not playing slow.

West Lib style relies on traps on makes, traps on misses. Guys are coming at you from all kinds of different angles. West lib guys are running their guts out trying to generate turnovers. I think most would agree (at least Bob Huggins) that playing against double-team pressing teams is much more stressful than playing against a good defense in a half-court game.

As a result, the opponent's offense is out of sync as they get into their offense late and they tend to rush their shots from the pressure. This pressure wears on teams mentally and physically, resulting in what some call mini-blackouts, where the opponent just falls apart for 4 or 5 minutes.

For example, against Urbana, with about 11 minutes left in 1st half, West Lib led 23-18. Urbana was holding up fairly well against the pressure. Then the cumulative pressure started to take its toll and the blackout occurred - three 5 second calls, guys throwing passes over the heads into the stands, steals for layups, etc.
At the end of the half, the score was 66-35.

Although I appreciate both styles, I wonder why more teams don't adopt the West Lib style and recruit for it. Crutch is 5-0 (for the first time in history of Nova SE) with the existing players and 3 true freshman he recruited late, after being picked to finish last in their conference. I have come to realize that this style can offset the dominance of big inside guys or great playground players.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Valid way of looking at it.

What I've never understood about the MEC is why teams get in to that with them ... i.e. let WL dictate the pace.

The last time IUP played them they did everything possible to slow the game down and it worked. WL hated playing at that pace and they were visibly frustrated (2014 Regional final).

I've noticed Wheeling does a fairly good job of slowing it, too.

Point being if you're an MEC doormat team and you lose to WL by 40 every time you try and run with them ... why keep doing it? It's like the definition of insanity.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Valid way of looking at it.

What I've never understood about the MEC is why teams get in to that with them ... i.e. let WL dictate the pace.

The last time IUP played them they did everything possible to slow the game down and it worked. WL hated playing at that pace and they were visibly frustrated (2014 Regional final).

I've noticed Wheeling does a fairly good job of slowing it, too.

Point being if you're an MEC doormat team and you lose to WL by 40 every time you try and run with them ... why keep doing it? It's like the definition of insanity.

Good point. Well coached teams like iup and wju seemed to be able to resist the urge to speed up. The players also do what their coaches tell them.

For other schools I think some coaches seem to think that against west liberty you attack the basket when you break the press to get layups. But if they are not comfortable in an open court game it often backfires. As they get tired they start missing shots they would normally make and start making bad passes

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

We point at WLU's tremendous 3 point shooting as the reason for their success and that certainly plays a major part (WLU is always willing to trade 2's for 3's). But the straw that truly stirs the WLU drink is the constant harassing defense. Even when they aren't working the press at 100%, they are still constantly in the face of the guy bring the ball up and looking to jump passes. Over the course of a game, this wears all but the most aerobically fit players out and you start to see the black-out that Columbus talks about. Tonight the victim was a good Notre Dame squad. ND hung with WLU for the first five minutes of the game and in fact has a 3 point lead. Blackout occurred and over the next three minutes WLU turned that 3 point deficit into an 8 point lead which they stretched a 16 point half time lead. ND was able to wittle that down to 5 points over the first half of the second half but then the blackout occurred again and WLU pushed out to a 14 point lead over the next two minutes and ultimately coasted to a 19 point W 103-84.