West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Work o free throws...YEP! I'd rather him NOT work on his 3's. Rather see him focus on working on rebound positioning and defense!!!

Good points. Historically everyone had the green light to shoot the 3 regardless of position. Would you agree a demphasis of the 3 at the inside position would be a departure from the current philosophy? Both approaches have their pros and cons.
Btw the inside offense, rebounding and positioning are already very strong ( for high school level) at least in the game I saw.

[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

So, Eer and Boat, think we get one or two more basketball recruits for next year?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Don't forget about the announced-then-unannounced offer to Lock Haven transfer T. Brake.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

So, Eer and Boat, think we get one or two more basketball recruits for next year?

Just looking at the roster, I would guess that we have room for at least 2 more players.
Whether we sign more players, I have no information.
My guess is that the D2 recruiting picture in general gets clearer after the D1 signing period is completed (starts April 11 and goes for about a week, I think).

D1 rant follows:
Some players are so enamored of the status of playing D1 that they would rather play on a lousy D1 team than play on a good D2 team that would better develop their skills for Europe. IMHO, many parents and kids are biased toward D1 because they have unrealistic NBA expectations. Many kids would be better served by playing on a well-coached D2 team.

My view is that NBA players are first born, then made; By that I mean is that a mix of factors such as height, body type, quickness, ratio of fast twitch muscles to slow twitch muscles, etc. are predominantly inherited and are necessary prerequisites (but not sufficient) to make it to the NBA. If one has those, then skill development of muscle memory through repetition, basketball iq, good coaching and opportunity will determine if one makes it to the NBA.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

College basketball is so different today than it was even just 15 years ago. The AAU influence has crippled the game. The transfer has also majorly hurt it. One-and-done sure doesn't help, either. Imagine the great Michigan State teams of the early 80s or Phi Slamma Jamma playing these current top D1 teams. It would be a massacre.

There's about 400 players in the NBA ... on the entire Earth. The odds of even P5 players sticking in the NBA are terrible.

That said, I don't think all that get D1 offers think they are going to the NBA. It's a status thing to a large extent. D1 programs look at D2 the way we look at D3. However, the reality is the top-tier D2 programs could easily play with the lower-end D1 programs. The top D3 programs could play with the bottom of D2, also. That said, the Top D2 teams would get run out of the building against the top D1 teams. Our current champion, Ferris State, would probably lose by 40+ to Villanova or Duke in a real game.

The crop of players I find most interesting are the ones I call the bus riders. The ends of the D1 bench. Those kids choose to live the lifestyle and ride pine for four years rather than 'play' in D2. I can't tell you how many 'D1' transfers I've seen over the years enter our ranks. Everybody gets so excited. Then the season starts and it's real clear they were D2 all along. There are exceptions, obviously. In the same tone, there are plenty of D2 players who could easily play up. In our cases, take guys like Seger or Brandon Norfleet ... both easily could have played at top mid-majors (or perhaps higher). They were late bloomers.

I don't think I'd watch an NBA game if somebody paid me. I think in many ways current D2 basketball is a throwback to what D1 basketball was like back in the 80s -- when it was still nice to watch and had fluidity ... not all dunks and 40' trey chucks.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

College basketball is so different today than it was even just 15 years ago. The AAU influence has crippled the game. The transfer has also majorly hurt it. One-and-done sure doesn't help, either. Imagine the great Michigan State teams of the early 80s or Phi Slamma Jamma playing these current top D1 teams. It would be a massacre.

There's about 400 players in the NBA ... on the entire Earth. The odds of even P5 players sticking in the NBA are terrible.

That said, I don't think all that get D1 offers think they are going to the NBA. It's a status thing to a large extent. D1 programs look at D2 the way we look at D3. However, the reality is the top-tier D2 programs could easily play with the lower-end D1 programs. The top D3 programs could play with the bottom of D2, also. That said, the Top D2 teams would get run out of the building against the top D1 teams. Our current champion, Ferris State, would probably lose by 40+ to Villanova or Duke in a real game.

The crop of players I find most interesting are the ones I call the bus riders. The ends of the D1 bench. Those kids choose to live the lifestyle and ride pine for four years rather than 'play' in D2. I can't tell you how many 'D1' transfers I've seen over the years enter our ranks. Everybody gets so excited. Then the season starts and it's real clear they were D2 all along. There are exceptions, obviously. In the same tone, there are plenty of D2 players who could easily play up. In our cases, take guys like Seger or Brandon Norfleet ... both easily could have played at top mid-majors (or perhaps higher). They were late bloomers.

I don't think I'd watch an NBA game if somebody paid me. I think in many ways current D2 basketball is a throwback to what D1 basketball was like back in the 80s -- when it was still nice to watch and had fluidity ... not all dunks and 40' trey chucks.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Just looking at the roster, I would guess that we have room for at least 2 more players.
Whether we sign more players, I have no information.
My guess is that the D2 recruiting picture in general gets clearer after the D1 signing period is completed (starts April 11 and goes for about a week, I think).

D1 rant follows:
Some players are so enamored of the status of playing D1 that they would rather play on a lousy D1 team than play on a good D2 team that would better develop their skills for Europe. IMHO, many parents and kids are biased toward D1 because they have unrealistic NBA expectations. Many kids would be better served by playing on a well-coached D2 team.

My view is that NBA players are first born, then made; By that I mean is that a mix of factors such as height, body type, quickness, ratio of fast twitch muscles to slow twitch muscles, etc. are predominantly inherited and are necessary prerequisites (but not sufficient) to make it to the NBA. If one has those, then skill development of muscle memory through repetition, basketball iq, good coaching and opportunity will determine if one makes it to the NBA.

Agree with you about the "aura" of playing D1....But conversely, I think it's more of players wanting to play in the March Madness Tourney (very difficult as a mid major) rather than going d2...Realistically, the fringe players we are talking about are MAC School, or Northeast conference (think robert Morris) D1'ers...and not the Power 5 players...I think the top 10 D2 teams could compete for the conference title with the Robert Morrises and St Francises and Bucknell's of the world... And most HS players have a fanaticism with the tourney vs playing D2....

No one goes to D2 games...but the basketball is GOOD! ANd personally, I'd rather play on a top 20 or top 30 d2 team than be 9th or 10th man on a low D1 team...DRIVES ME CRAZY the decisions that kids make...Delusions of playing in the tourney and lesser extent chasing NBA dreams, I think

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

IUP big-I replied to Columbuseer's post before scrolling down to the bottom of the messages, and your take and my take are very similar....

kindred spirits....

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Agree with you about the "aura" of playing D1....But conversely, I think it's more of players wanting to play in the March Madness Tourney (very difficult as a mid major) rather than going d2...Realistically, the fringe players we are talking about are MAC School, or Northeast conference (think robert Morris) D1'ers...and not the Power 5 players...I think the top 10 D2 teams could compete for the conference title with the Robert Morrises and St Francises and Bucknell's of the world... And most HS players have a fanaticism with the tourney vs playing D2....

No one goes to D2 games...but the basketball is GOOD! ANd personally, I'd rather play on a top 20 or top 30 d2 team than be 9th or 10th man on a low D1 team...DRIVES ME CRAZY the decisions that kids make...Delusions of playing in the tourney and lesser extent chasing NBA dreams, I think

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

A lot of it is geography. What is the competition level, etc.

At IUP, for example, we got about 1,300 on average this year. That's not a bad D2 number, but the problem is we have a 4,000+ seat arena. That number also had a few big hits late in the year that drove it up. It was under 1,000 for a long time. Keep in mind IUP averaged over 2,000 just a few years back. Ticket prices at IUP are ridiculous and that's a well-discussed topic.

But, by and large, I think the schools at this level do an exceptionally poor job of selling the programs -- and also the experience. I can't count how many times I've had friends in and taken them to an IUP game. Every game, by halftime, they all say the same thing ... 'wow, these guys can play'. Toss in IUP has two bars inside the KCAC and a Hilton bar 20' from the front door ... and it becomes a fun night. But, that's the perfect example of the public perception of D2 basketball. My friends are always, literally, shocked when they see a game. It's like they are expecting a glorified intramural game full of 5'9" players.

Western PA is its own animal. It's a 'pro' area. The Penguins and Steelers rule the roost for much of basketball season. Pitt basketball, in the not so distant past, was the hottest ticket in the city. So, there's a lot of indirect competition. Even WVU draws a lot of basketball fans from Pittsburgh as it is close by and there is a huge alumni base here.

Basketball at the D2 level is also over-saturated in our region. I really believe, however, if you can just get people in the door one time ... they will come back. It's a great product. At most schools, it's very cheap to attend. Attending college sporting events is a culture. For schools in our region ... they just have to figure out how to build that culture.

I go to a lot of road games. Take Gannon for example. The average age in the Hammermill is probably close to 60 years old. Yes, you need that demographic. They give the most money in a lot of cases. But, how do you attract: A) students and B) the highly-coveted family demographic?

You have to change it from a 'game' to an 'event' ... that's the key to building that culture.

[Dirtybird]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Seeing that Sincere Carey is now committed to Duquesne. ??

[Layton]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Seeing that Sincere Carey is now committed to Duquesne. ??

Yikes

[timbertopper]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Classy move by Coach Howlett to give the kid a release so he could go to a D1 school, especially this late in the process. Pretty unique situation. Carry was getting a lot of Power 5 interest on the AAU circuit as a sophomore before the knee injuries. Certainly proved he was 100% the last couple of seasons. If he stays healthy, he'll help Dambrot and the Dukes. Timing sucks for WLU but Coach Howlett has pulled more than a few recruiting rabbits out of his hat over the years.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I saw that on Twitter that they lost Sin Carry... I guess our board was on top of it when they said Carry would be one of the best D2 freshman guards next year...he's off to duquesne...

Starters next year?

Arnold PG
Bolon SG
French 3
Meininger 4
Marlon Moore 5

Allen for bigger minutes... Dyer's minutes will be the same, just won't start...Look for Saben to have a nice campaign as well..

Can that lineup win the MEC?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

VC reported WL offered another PG ... I think he was from Ohio. Small guy (like 5'8" and 155 lbs).

I have mixed feelings on the Duquesne thing. Granted, Carry's stock really took off this past season. Per the few articles I read, they are leading on that Duquesne didn't contact him until 'after' he got his release from WL. You have to wonder how true that is, however.