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  • CALUPA69
    replied
    Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

    I went to a big AAU tourney with teams from many midwest states. Few team concepts were on display. Mostly 1 on 1 or 2 man offense. I asked a coach that I knew at a break, "Does AAU have a rule forbidding full court press pressure?"

    He laughed and said that he only knew of 1 team that presses- from Cincinnati area.

    It was a shame to see such gifted athletes with such a limited understanding of the game and who make fundamental errors.
    Sadly "flash before fundamentals" is now a part of a good deal of the national culture including writing, music, art, business and, of course, sports. My guess it's only going to get worse.

    Leave a comment:


  • Columbuseer
    replied
    Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

    Perhaps, although a lot of the D1 players who attend camps and play AAU ball still seem to has some noticeable holes in their game. Any kid who can learn to shoot a consistent pull-up jump shot at the elbow should be able to pick up a lot of extra points these days.
    I went to a big AAU tourney with teams from many midwest states. Few team concepts were on display. Mostly 1 on 1 or 2 man offense. I asked a coach that I knew at a break, "Does AAU have a rule forbidding full court press pressure?"

    He laughed and said that he only knew of 1 team that presses- from Cincinnati area.

    It was a shame to see such gifted athletes with such a limited understanding of the game and who make fundamental errors.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ship69
    replied
    Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post

    Unless the parents can afford the pricey camps especially common for basketball players. If the kids pay attention in these surroundings, they will catch the eyes of those few remaining college coaches who still value game intelligence and effort over only flashy stats.
    Perhaps, although a lot of the D1 players who attend camps and play AAU ball still seem to has some noticeable holes in their game. Any kid who can learn to shoot a consistent pull-up jump shot at the elbow should be able to pick up a lot of extra points these days.

    Leave a comment:


  • CALUPA69
    replied
    Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

    I saw a lot of good defensive basketball in the PSAC this season — good defensive concepts and excellent execution in some cases. The difference that can make was stunningly obvious when Ship would play a team such as Mansfield, which basically gave up on defense last season. Increasingly the NBA seems to be deciding defense is for suckers — hence the forays into 120 or more points we often see today. Obviously the talent of the NBA players would crush players at the D2 level, but that doesn't mean they're always playing fundamentally sound bsketball.

    Some friends and I were at a Ship baseball doubleheader against Salem, W.Va. Two of the guys were former PSAC baseball players and were dismayed the lack of fundamentals — throwing to the wrong base, failing to get in front of balls in the infield, inability of pitchers to throw strikes or effectively use the inside of the plate (three runs resulted from bases-loaded walks). Salem, in particular, had a lot of difficulties. There probably are more structured youth leagues in this country than there have ever been, but from what I see in a lot of sports the coaching of core skills of the games seems to be lacking in many cases.
    Unless the parents can afford the pricey camps especially common for basketball players. If the kids pay attention in these surroundings, they will catch the eyes of those few remaining college coaches who still value game intelligence and effort over only flashy stats.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ship69
    replied
    Originally posted by IUPalum View Post

    So good that they forgot what defense was.
    I saw a lot of good defensive basketball in the PSAC this season — good defensive concepts and excellent execution in some cases. The difference that can make was stunningly obvious when Ship would play a team such as Mansfield, which basically gave up on defense last season. Increasingly the NBA seems to be deciding defense is for suckers — hence the forays into 120 or more points we often see today. Obviously the talent of the NBA players would crush players at the D2 level, but that doesn't mean they're always playing fundamentally sound bsketball.

    Some friends and I were at a Ship baseball doubleheader against Salem, W.Va. Two of the guys were former PSAC baseball players and were dismayed the lack of fundamentals — throwing to the wrong base, failing to get in front of balls in the infield, inability of pitchers to throw strikes or effectively use the inside of the plate (three runs resulted from bases-loaded walks). Salem, in particular, had a lot of difficulties. There probably are more structured youth leagues in this country than there have ever been, but from what I see in a lot of sports the coaching of core skills of the games seems to be lacking in many cases.

    Leave a comment:


  • Columbuseer
    replied
    Originally posted by IUP24 View Post

    You really hate everything outside of small college basketball, don't you? LOL
    Hate is a strong, often misused word. It is often used in the fallacy of the false dichotomy, which is very prevalent today- if you disagree with X, then you hate X.

    But it does seem quite obvious that d1 basketball is corrupt and exploits athletes.

    I like:
    • Gonzaga
    • Golden State
    • Unselfish play
    • Brilliant pass or assist over a dunk
    • High basketball IQs
    • Schools that are not corrupt and have meaningful majors for their athletes.
    • Equal opportunity for gifted athletes to possibly make it to the professional ranks, regardless of their SAT scores; i.e., decouple d1 from colleges and recognize it for what it is - a minor league. Replace recruiting with a draft and salary cap. Give them something like a GI bill to go to college or trade school of their choice after 5 years. Only usa ties post secondary athletics to college attendance. That would get rid of much of the corruption.
    Last edited by Columbuseer; 04-22-2022, 07:41 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPalum
    replied
    Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
    The D1 game gets knocked ... but the Duke vs Carolina game in the Final Four was one of the best games I've ever seen.
    So good that they forgot what defense was.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPbigINDIANS
    replied
    The D1 game gets knocked ... but the Duke vs Carolina game in the Final Four was one of the best games I've ever seen.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUP24
    replied
    Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
    The odds are clearly with the d1 team. To have a chance:

    1. You can't play their (d1) game. If your style imitates traditional d1 high ball screen style for a scoring guard, just with smaller players, you have almost no shot. You have to make d1 team play a different style. This was the strategy of Lemoyne when they beat #25 Syracuse in Nov 2009. Read quotes from players and coaches below. All the stats were close except points in the paint 42-30 LeMoyne. Go figure.

    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ory?id=4620949

    2. It helps if the d1 team has not played together much. Definitely want to play d1 early. Not a problem with transfer portal. Lol

    3. Synergy is often missing in d1 teams. The extra pass, no heat check shots, drawing fouls and treasuring each possession as gold are critical for d2. The number of ball reversals is positively correlated with open shots and high points per possession.

    4. D1 teams love their dunks. With instant transition to offense, You can get easy baskets as they mug to the crowd following a dunk. You have a chance if all your players can shoot the three and draw d1 bigs outside. They are not comfortable guarding quicker players.

    5. You must spread the floor to help create rebounding lanes. Remember 90% of rebounds are taken below the rim.


    You really hate everything outside of small college basketball, don't you? LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPbigINDIANS
    replied
    Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

    All your opinions sound plausible... if the d1 school is up by 20+ points.
    suggest you access post game articles by iowa coach and players after losing in 2015.
    when findlay beat ohio state in 2007, there was no experimenting and there was no don't care scrimmage attitude. They could not stay in front of marcus parker. And the fans were irate after the loss.
    Not scientific, but when an elite team beats or nearly beats a p5 level team, the d1 exhibitions seem to dry up for them in subsequent years

    probably need to take this topic to the d1 thread.

    IUP's last two they put scares in to Kentucky and Illinois for 30-34 minutes. Both played their rotations the whole game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Columbuseer
    replied
    Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
    I thought it was clear that we were talking hypothetically. Kind of like saying who would win in a football game between the 2018 Clemson Tigers and the 2004 USC Trojans or who would win a series between the 65 Celtics of Bill Russell and Hondo Havlicek and the 87 Lakers of Magic and Kareem. Game(s) are clearly never going to happen but fans still have opinions that they post loudly and proudly on message boards.

    But again, scrimmages, particularly D1 v DII are different than regular season games. For a D1, the scrimmage is just a glorafied preseason practice against players they have never heard of playing for a school they probably have never heard of either...For the DII, this is a target "game" that they circle on their calandar. For D1 coaches, these scrimmages are practices were they try player combinations that they probably would never try during a "real" game...let's see how the new transfer shooting guard can handle being the PG or if we need to play small ball, what would our offense look like or we don't regularly play zone, lets run some consecutive possessions were we run a zone. DII coaches see it as a validation that they are just as good as a D1 and pull out all the stops...best players running their "A" offense and defense...Also a good recruting tool in the off season...Hew Jimmy Bob, did you see that our boys gave Kentucky a scare at Rupp Arena last year? You know, we're playing Duke this year and you'd look good a Cameron Indoor going toe to toe with them!
    All your opinions sound plausible... if the d1 school is up by 20+ points.
    suggest you access post game articles by iowa coach and players after losing in 2015.
    when findlay beat ohio state in 2007, there was no experimenting and there was no don't care scrimmage attitude. They could not stay in front of marcus parker. And the fans were irate after the loss.
    Not scientific, but when an elite team beats or nearly beats a p5 level team, the d1 exhibitions seem to dry up for them in subsequent years

    probably need to take this topic to the d1 thread.


    Leave a comment:


  • boatcapt
    replied
    Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

    Your proposed scenario is quite impossible, so it cannot support your assertion. D1 vs d2 is by definition an exhibition. It cannot count on w/l record (a loss would doom d1's ncaa ranking). Games are Nearly always at or very near beginning of season.

    Athletes in general, especially good ones, hate to lose in anything. D1 Coaches don't take any game lightly.
    Players may take a d2 team lightly early, but they will try their best not to lose. Elite d2 teams have more than a punchers chance. Just a few examples:

    2020 Queens nc beat Howard by 14 and lost to George Mason by 1
    2019 nwmsu lost to duke 69-63
    2018 Augusta beat south carolina 77-72
    2017 ferris state lost to michigan state 80-72. Gave them a major scare for 35 minutes.
    2017 Lincoln Memorial lost to butler 86-79
    2017 Queens nc lost by 2 to wake forest
    2015 augustana beat iowa 76-74

    common thread is elite d2 team with strong coaches and disciplined players.

    if you are the coach of a mid tier d1 team and your seat is more than lukewarm, why in the world would you want to play an elite d2 team, given these results?

    During an interview on wvmetronews sportsline, coach Howlett was asked by Brad Howe why he does not schedule a d1 exhibition, given his challenges in finding out of conference d2 opponents.
    .
    He replied that he has contacted nearby D1 schools, but has been turned down. The stated reasons are:
    • no one on their schedule plays like wlu, so it does not help them.
    • No win situation - if they win, they were supposed to win; should they lose, they will get a large negative reaction.

    I thought it was clear that we were talking hypothetically. Kind of like saying who would win in a football game between the 2018 Clemson Tigers and the 2004 USC Trojans or who would win a series between the 65 Celtics of Bill Russell and Hondo Havlicek and the 87 Lakers of Magic and Kareem. Game(s) are clearly never going to happen but fans still have opinions that they post loudly and proudly on message boards.

    But again, scrimmages, particularly D1 v DII are different than regular season games. For a D1, the scrimmage is just a glorafied preseason practice against players they have never heard of playing for a school they probably have never heard of either...For the DII, this is a target "game" that they circle on their calandar. For D1 coaches, these scrimmages are practices were they try player combinations that they probably would never try during a "real" game...let's see how the new transfer shooting guard can handle being the PG or if we need to play small ball, what would our offense look like or we don't regularly play zone, lets run some consecutive possessions were we run a zone. DII coaches see it as a validation that they are just as good as a D1 and pull out all the stops...best players running their "A" offense and defense...Also a good recruting tool in the off season...Hew Jimmy Bob, did you see that our boys gave Kentucky a scare at Rupp Arena last year? You know, we're playing Duke this year and you'd look good a Cameron Indoor going toe to toe with them!
    Last edited by boatcapt; 04-22-2022, 10:46 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • IUPbigINDIANS
    replied
    Originally posted by IUPalum View Post

    Diop/Radford both out of state guys which is more money.

    I liked Diop all year and felt he should have played more. He wasn't going to be a 28 mpg guy or anything but I think he could have seen at least 10 mpg. Any more than 10 mpg and he'd have likely fouled out regardless.

    I get Radford leaving. His floor time was going to be extremely limited this coming season. If Joe signs a PG like we all expect, that would have made Radford the 6th guard. And, we all know Joe doesn't play 6 guards. We have to keep in mind while Bryce will be a basketball sophomore this coming season, he'll be an academic senior. So, I can surely understand him not wanting to waste another year on the bench.


    So, I'd say the shopping list is as follows:

    Priority No. 1 - Point guard
    - While they could start Dallis or even move David back over there ... neither is probably the best option for 22-23. Dallis is still very young and his best role this year could be as Joe's normal 'super sub'. David really started to emerge at shooting guard and is poised for a monster season. Joe's also not going to want to go all 'Armoni' with Shawndale and play him 39.99 mpg. Having Polce and Dillard will take a lot of stress off of Shawndale's return.

    Priority No. 2 - Forward/Center
    - The first three are set with Ethan, Tomiwa and Damir Brooks. So, the question becomes do you want another small forward or do you bring in more of the old school big boy? My guess would be another small forward but there is some appeal to an enforcer type to play the role of No. 4 post player. Dolan Waldo is highly likely to redshirt.

    Priority No. 3
    - I'd probably go with a restock here. Another transfer in this spot wouldn't make sense as by now playing time would be very hard to come by. I'd take a high school guard here and redshirt him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Columbuseer
    replied
    Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

    A top tier DII has a punchers chance against a mid tier D1 during the regular season but almost zero against a top tier D1. I'm talking during the regular season when the games count on the W/L record.
    Your proposed scenario is quite impossible, so it cannot support your assertion. D1 vs d2 is by definition an exhibition. It cannot count on w/l record (a loss would doom d1's ncaa ranking). Games are Nearly always at or very near beginning of season.

    Athletes in general, especially good ones, hate to lose in anything. D1 Coaches don't take any game lightly.
    Players may take a d2 team lightly early, but they will try their best not to lose. Elite d2 teams have more than a punchers chance. Just a few examples:

    2020 Queens nc beat Howard by 14 and lost to George Mason by 1
    2019 nwmsu lost to duke 69-63
    2018 Augusta beat south carolina 77-72
    2017 ferris state lost to michigan state 80-72. Gave them a major scare for 35 minutes.
    2017 Lincoln Memorial lost to butler 86-79
    2017 Queens nc lost by 2 to wake forest
    2015 augustana beat iowa 76-74

    common thread is elite d2 team with strong coaches and disciplined players.

    if you are the coach of a mid tier d1 team and your seat is more than lukewarm, why in the world would you want to play an elite d2 team, given these results?

    During an interview on wvmetronews sportsline, coach Howlett was asked by Brad Howe why he does not schedule a d1 exhibition, given his challenges in finding out of conference d2 opponents.
    .
    He replied that he has contacted nearby D1 schools, but has been turned down. The stated reasons are:
    • no one on their schedule plays like wlu, so it does not help them.
    • No win situation - if they win, they were supposed to win; should they lose, they will get a large negative reaction.


    Leave a comment:


  • Columbuseer
    replied
    The odds are clearly with the d1 team. To have a chance:

    1. You can't play their (d1) game. If your style imitates traditional d1 high ball screen style for a scoring guard, just with smaller players, you have almost no shot. You have to make d1 team play a different style. This was the strategy of Lemoyne when they beat #25 Syracuse in Nov 2009. Read quotes from players and coaches below. All the stats were close except points in the paint 42-30 LeMoyne. Go figure.

    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ory?id=4620949

    2. It helps if the d1 team has not played together much. Definitely want to play d1 early. Not a problem with transfer portal. Lol

    3. Synergy is often missing in d1 teams. The extra pass, no heat check shots, drawing fouls and treasuring each possession as gold are critical for d2. The number of ball reversals is positively correlated with open shots and high points per possession.

    4. D1 teams love their dunks. With instant transition to offense, You can get easy baskets as they mug to the crowd following a dunk. You have a chance if all your players can shoot the three and draw d1 bigs outside. They are not comfortable guarding quicker players.

    5. You must spread the floor to help create rebounding lanes. Remember 90% of rebounds are taken below the rim.



    Leave a comment:

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