Iup basketball

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Did Clarion's coach know he was at a game today?

Goodness


Talk about throwing in the towel.


Three of their players would be welcomed with open arms in Indiana next year.

When they hit the Portal in about two weeks I sure hope Joe calls them.

[Ship69]

Another point... you do realize the majority of HS teams put up a shot long before 30 seconds right? The point of the shot clock is to keep teams from stalling and holding the ball.

If that is the case, then I'm not sure that bolsters your argument for the 30-second clock. I covered high school sports, including basketball, for about 10 years at one time, and I can count on one hand the number of times a team went into anything approaching a deep stall. Most of the mediocre teams at the high school level don't have the skill set to run a good stall and will likely as not turn the ball over. The good teams generally have no reason to run a stall. Actually, I watched a girls' HS game with a 30-second clock in Maryland last night, and I saw nothing that changed my mind. What I do know is that if I had the superior personnel with a clock running I would always be pressing to make the other team work to bring it up court. That turns the 30-second clock into more like a 22-23 second clock, assuming there is no turnover. That's about all I have to say on the subject — no use in continually going back and forth on it. Although I don't think so, you could be right. I claim no God-like powers of observation.

[IUPalum]

You're not lacking in points, but I don't see how just speeding up incompetent players is going to improve anything. It's just as likely to bring more awkward three-pointers and air balls. A clock is not going to make bad coaching better. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think I am. Probably best we agree to disagree.

Another point... you do realize the majority of HS teams put up a shot long before 30 seconds right? The point of the shot clock is to keep teams from stalling and holding the ball.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

That's one game in your region, and if McKeesport was indeed a big, athletic team then it's a shame their coach felt he had to resort to stalling against a quality opponent. That reflects little confidence in his players. Did Gateway try to force the tempo or not? If not, the score is on them as well as McKeesport. Coaches have attempted to stall high school games for at least 80 years or more. It's up to a coach to decide whether to settle for it or not. You certainly make some creditable points, but we're not going to entirely see eye to eye on this one.

One way or another, the shot clock is coming.

[Ship69]

You're missing the point! Shot clock or no shot clock these players still will have no fundamentals because they aren't taught. The shot clock or lack there of is the reason they have no fundamentals. The lack of quality coaching is the reason. By adding a shot clock, it may force players to try and develop more fundamentals to be more ready for the next level (college). Either way, it's not working as is. Change is needed and this could be the start.

You're not lacking in points, but I don't see how just speeding up incompetent players is going to improve anything. It's just as likely to bring more awkward three-pointers and air balls. A clock is not going to make bad coaching better. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think I am. Probably best we agree to disagree.

[Ship69]

During a big boys game in the WPIAL season, McKeesport went total clock mode the entire game and defeated Gateway, 25-24. It was horrendous to watch.

Two big, athletic teams. And ... nothing happend.

It was like watching grass grow.

I also watched this year (about 20 times) a team go in to clock mode for like the final 2-3 minutes of the first half. And, of course, at the end of nearly every game I saw in person.

I get the concept. It's just boring as hell.

To me, the high school shot clock can't get here soon enough. If I recall, I think it becomes a thing in PA in 2027-2028.

That's one game in your region, and if McKeesport was indeed a big, athletic team then it's a shame their coach felt he had to resort to stalling against a quality opponent. That reflects little confidence in his players. Did Gateway try to force the tempo or not? If not, the score is on them as well as McKeesport. Coaches have attempted to stall high school games for at least 80 years or more. It's up to a coach to decide whether to settle for it or not. You certainly make some creditable points, but we're not going to entirely see eye to eye on this one.

[IUPalum]

I'm not entirely going along with that. Of course they don't play defense. They run down the court and chuck up three-pointers. And how is speeding up players whom, as you say, can't play fundamental basketball going to make them any better?

You're missing the point! Shot clock or no shot clock these players still will have no fundamentals because they aren't taught. The shot clock or lack there of is the reason they have no fundamentals. The lack of quality coaching is the reason. By adding a shot clock, it may force players to try and develop more fundamentals to be more ready for the next level (college). Either way, it's not working as is. Change is needed and this could be the start.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Who is playing 23-21 boys basketball games? Haven't seen anything like that in our area. We'll agree to disagree on that one. If you have good players, get out and push tempo.

During a big boys game in the WPIAL season, McKeesport went total clock mode the entire game and defeated Gateway, 25-24. It was horrendous to watch.

Two big, athletic teams. And ... nothing happend.

It was like watching grass grow.

I also watched this year (about 20 times) a team go in to clock mode for like the final 2-3 minutes of the first half. And, of course, at the end of nearly every game I saw in person.

I get the concept. It's just boring as hell.

To me, the high school shot clock can't get here soon enough. If I recall, I think it becomes a thing in PA in 2027-2028.

[EyeoftheHawk]

I like the idea of a shot clock, but I think it might help girls games even more than boys assuming they get 35 seconds. I’ve seen several girls games where a team has a small lead going into the 4th quarter and they try to take the air out of the ball the rest of the way. We recently saw it in the Heritage Conference championship game here, but it backfired on Penns Manor. If a small school has a couple decent ball handlers, they can more or less play catch for long stretches resulting in 27-24 type games that resemble keep away more than basketball.

[Ship69]

I totally disagree. I shot clock is beyond needed. No shot clock slows the game down and players don't need to read and react ner as much.

If you want to blame lack of fundamentals, you can blame the AAU/travel circuit that doesn't coach the players up. Defense, running offensive sets is literally a thing of the past. These coaches roll the ball out and let the players run up and down the court with next to no structure. If you haven't noticed, it has translated to D2. These kids literally have no idea how to play man D, they can't remember offensive plays because they never had to, etc.

Don't blame a shot clock for lack of fundamentals. Blame the coaching and work ethic.

I'm not entirely going along with that. Of course they don't play defense. They run down the court and chuck up three-pointers. And how is speeding up players whom, as you say, can't play fundamental basketball going to make them any better?

[Ship69]

In my opinion, the shot clock is so desperately needed in high school.

If I had to choose between watching a 23-21 boys basketball game or looking at a blank wall for 60 minutes ... I'm not sure which I'd choose.

As for the last play of the college half ... it has become horrendously awful.

Who is playing 23-21 boys basketball games? Haven't seen anything like that in our area. We'll agree to disagree on that one. If you have good players, get out and push tempo.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I totally disagree. I shot clock is beyond needed. No shot clock slows the game down and players don't need to read and react ner as much.

If you want to blame lack of fundamentals, you can blame the AAU/travel circuit that doesn't coach the players up. Defense, running offensive sets is literally a thing of the past. These coaches roll the ball out and let the players run up and down the court with next to no structure. If you haven't noticed, it has translated to D2. These kids literally have no idea how to play man D, they can't remember offensive plays because they never had to, etc.

Don't blame a shot clock for lack of fundamentals. Blame the coaching and work ethic.

Another rant: Quit dunking in warmups and hit some mid-range shots. It kills me to see dudes who will never, ever dunk in a game try it 14 times in the layup line.

Those are also the same guys who haven't made a non-layup since November.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I totally disagree. I shot clock is beyond needed. No shot clock slows the game down and players don't need to read and react ner as much.

If you want to blame lack of fundamentals, you can blame the AAU/travel circuit that doesn't coach the players up. Defense, running offensive sets is literally a thing of the past. These coaches roll the ball out and let the players run up and down the court with next to no structure. If you haven't noticed, it has translated to D2. These kids literally have no idea how to play man D, they can't remember offensive plays because they never had to, etc.

Don't blame a shot clock for lack of fundamentals. Blame the coaching and work ethic.

We've seen that first hand with a couple of IUP's younger players.

They came from AAU free-for-all to Joe's micromanaged world.

It's been an entertaining transition. I guess that's one way to phrase it.

[IUPalum]

And now they're talking about shot clocks in the high schools that could wind up being a complete disaster for basketball fundamentals. The average high school team has enough trouble getting the ball upcourt and setting up an offense, especially when pressured. They don't need to be hurried. If you're lucky enough to coach a good high school team, you can turn up the pressure and create turnovers.

I thought the original 45-second shot clock was a mite too long, but the 35-second clock seemed about right. Then of course they lowered it to the present 30 and at times have even talked about going to the NBA clock, which would basically mark the end of set plays in college basketball. I suppose those who think run-and-gun is some kind of pure bssketball would be delighted, but those of us who like to see exceptional teamwork would probably be disappointed. What I've noticed especially the past few years in situations where a team is going for the last shot before halftime is the seeming lack of set plays to get off that shot. Generally you have the point guard dribbling away 10-15 seconds, then trying to penetrate with 10 seconds (or fewer) left and often getting off a contested shot or odd-looking airball. How about screens to get an open look for a good three-point shooter? How about a pick-and-roll? How about anything? Doesn't seem to happen.

I totally disagree. I shot clock is beyond needed. No shot clock slows the game down and players don't need to read and react ner as much.

If you want to blame lack of fundamentals, you can blame the AAU/travel circuit that doesn't coach the players up. Defense, running offensive sets is literally a thing of the past. These coaches roll the ball out and let the players run up and down the court with next to no structure. If you haven't noticed, it has translated to D2. These kids literally have no idea how to play man D, they can't remember offensive plays because they never had to, etc.

Don't blame a shot clock for lack of fundamentals. Blame the coaching and work ethic.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

And now they're talking about shot clocks in the high schools that could wind up being a complete disaster for basketball fundamentals. The average high school team has enough trouble getting the ball upcourt and setting up an offense, especially when pressured. They don't need to be hurried. If you're lucky enough to coach a good high school team, you can turn up the pressure and create turnovers.

I thought the original 45-second shot clock was a mite too long, but the 35-second clock seemed about right. Then of course they lowered it to the present 30 and at times have even talked about going to the NBA clock, which would basically mark the end of set plays in college basketball. I suppose those who think run-and-gun is some kind of pure bssketball would be delighted, but those of us who like to see exceptional teamwork would probably be disappointed. What I've noticed especially the past few years in situations where a team is going for the last shot before halftime is the seeming lack of set plays to get off that shot. Generally you have the point guard dribbling away 10-15 seconds, then trying to penetrate with 10 seconds (or fewer) left and often getting off a contested shot or odd-looking airball. How about screens to get an open look for a good three-point shooter? How about a pick-and-roll? How about anything? Doesn't seem to happen.

In my opinion, the shot clock is so desperately needed in high school.

If I had to choose between watching a 23-21 boys basketball game or looking at a blank wall for 60 minutes ... I'm not sure which I'd choose.

As for the last play of the college half ... it has become horrendously awful.