Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

[Looking For 9]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

All that is needed is for shots to fall a little better. I think having a full week of practice will help. I'm looking forward to the game where all our three point shooters are hitting. I hope it is against one of the stronger teams. One good upset would do wonders for Owensboro fans and the team. Some G MAC wins are no longer upsets. :).

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Where have all the flowers gone? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgXNVA9ngx8

The last time KWC was in a National Championship game will be 16 years ago this Spring. The longest stretch that the KWC team has ever been in which they did not play in a National Championship Game (Roy can confirm it. I have no statistic before me to back up this claim, but it seems right). That really needs to change, and the only way to do that is to bring in the best players possible. Any other answers? Does anyone care anymore? Does anyone care that the D2 program with the most National Championships and tournament wins has now become just another historic program gone south? And, before anyone says I am a negative Nellie, I can say I could care less what anyone thinks about me. What about the KWC Men's Basketball Team? Does anyone really care about this program anymore? This includes the administration and the current coaching staff. DO WHAT IT TAKES! KWC has done it before. NO EXCUSES!

https://www.ncaa.com/history/basketball-men/d2

Look at this stretch:

2003 Northeastern State (32-3) Larry Gipson 75-64 **Kentucky Wesleyan Lakeland, Fla.
2002 Metro State (29-6) Mike Dunlap 80-72 Kentucky Wesleyan Evansville, Ind.
2001 Kentucky Wesleyan (31-3) Ray Harper 72-63 Washburn Bakersfield, Calif.
2000 Metro State (33-4) Mike Dunlap 97-79 Kentucky Wesleyan Louisville, Ky.
1999 Kentucky Wesleyan (35-2) Ray Harper 75-60 Metro State Louisville, Ky.
1998 UC Davis (31-2) Bob Williams 83-77 Kentucky Wesleyan Louisville, Ky.

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Sure they can steam roll over Alice and Floyd, and a terrible TNU team. What about that Thanksgiving Classic this season? Ever seen one like that before? I know this is the coach's first season. Give him time. Okay, I will. He should get his team in the NCAA tournament next season. That would be a start. Do what it takes!

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Wesleyan has now got one of the slickest athletic websites in D2, thanks to Sidearm and Roy and the Sports Information Department. When you walk into the Sportscenter there is a haunting and it still shines of YEARS GONE BY without much help from the spirits of ages past. They're all probably pixxed off. However, they can and will come back if people of extreme importance to KWC would just give a big da**. I am not saying they don't, but they need to step it up. That is my opinion from somebody who graduated with Ray Harper. I played in the Quonset hut league and was horrible, but I was there for every home game as a student at the Sportscenter during a time that doesn't even seem possible with the attendance like it was then. I followed them around on the road when possible for years. How many students do you think attends a game now on average? What is the average attendance? Nobody 16 years ago thought this program would ever be in this condition. No matter what happened in the past that set Wesleyan back should matter anymore. That is all water under the bridge. DO WHAT IT TAKES KENTUCKY WESLEYAN COLLEGE MEN"S BASKETBALL TEAM!!!!!!!!

TRADITION? When was the last time Kentucky Wesleyan lost to Bellarmine by 26 points at the Sportscenter? That is what I thought.

[pantherfan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I'm relatively new, and I don't mean to offend, but the ping-pong battle of your posts blows my mind. One day you talk about liking the team and seeing potential and giving them time to grow. Then your next post is 3 rants about how the program isn't where it should be and why it's no good. I stand by the fact that fans like you are not what the program needs, especially right now! They need nothing but support now. Not a disgruntled former student who isn't happy with current student attendance. Do you know what the first step in a rebuild is? To hire a quality coach, which I believe the administration has done. Given the numerous facility upgrades and recent coaching hires, there is zero doubt in my mind that KWC administration is invested in athletics and wants to be successful. I've said it before, but I speak as a former Wesleyan athlete. I understand the position of the kids on the team that are working their butts off to get to a point that fans like you can be proud.

However, attendance does need to be worked on. The guy brought in, Greg Richard, is working on it, but quite frankly children playing musical chairs isn't the entertainment that puts butts in seats. They need to start offering incentive to students to be there, whether it's a free hot dog or maybe pizza or even a free t-shirt every now and then for all students that attend. That will get them there, and hopefully once they watch their classmates fight on the floor they will keep coming back. Not everyone loves basketball and students do have other obligations so I get that you wont have huge turnouts all the time. But, the student turnout for the Bellarmine game shows me they can get them there. In 2018, per the NCAA stats, KWC averaged 1,055 in attendance. That is not the days of glory, but that is not terrible. They are just outside the top 30, and with the program Cooper is working to build, they could very well climb back into that category. Just for comparison (and because I prefer to bring facts and numbers) here are the attendance averages for 2018 in the GMAC, which show that KWC still carries a significant home-court advantage.

Findlay-1068
KWC-1055
Cedarville-901
Alderson-647
Walsh-594
Hillsdale- 546
Trevecca-469
Ohio Dominican-441
Malone- 401
Davis and Elikins- 329
Tiffin- 256
Ohio Valley-237
Lake Erie- 166

And for additional comparison, Bellarmine averaged 1757 and USI averaged 1414. Given the populations differences, KWC has the highest ratio of attendance to population of the 3 teams.

[kdubnation]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I'm relatively new, and I don't mean to offend, but the ping-pong battle of your posts blows my mind. One day you talk about liking the team and seeing potential and giving them time to grow. Then your next post is 3 rants about how the program isn't where it should be and why it's no good. I stand by the fact that fans like you are not what the program needs, especially right now! They need nothing but support now. Not a disgruntled former student who isn't happy with current student attendance. Do you know what the first step in a rebuild is? To hire a quality coach, which I believe the administration has done. Given the numerous facility upgrades and recent coaching hires, there is zero doubt in my mind that KWC administration is invested in athletics and wants to be successful. I've said it before, but I speak as a former Wesleyan athlete. I understand the position of the kids on the team that are working their butts off to get to a point that fans like you can be proud.

However, attendance does need to be worked on. The guy brought in, Greg Richard, is working on it, but quite frankly children playing musical chairs isn't the entertainment that puts butts in seats. They need to start offering incentive to students to be there, whether it's a free hot dog or maybe pizza or even a free t-shirt every now and then for all students that attend. That will get them there, and hopefully once they watch their classmates fight on the floor they will keep coming back. Not everyone loves basketball and students do have other obligations so I get that you wont have huge turnouts all the time. But, the student turnout for the Bellarmine game shows me they can get them there. In 2018, per the NCAA stats, KWC averaged 1,055 in attendance. That is not the days of glory, but that is not terrible. They are just outside the top 30, and with the program Cooper is working to build, they could very well climb back into that category. Just for comparison (and because I prefer to bring facts and numbers) here are the attendance averages for 2018 in the GMAC, which show that KWC still carries a significant home-court advantage.

Findlay-1068
KWC-1055
Cedarville-901
Alderson-647
Walsh-594
Hillsdale- 546
Trevecca-469
Ohio Dominican-441
Malone- 401
Davis and Elikins- 329
Tiffin- 256
Ohio Valley-237
Lake Erie- 166

And for additional comparison, Bellarmine averaged 1757 and USI averaged 1414. Given the populations differences, KWC has the highest ratio of attendance to population of the 3 teams.

I was a student at KWC just 20 years ago ("just 20 years" ha!) and we packed the student section every game. It wasn't a "mandatory" brotherhood event for the fraternities, but all 3 always had more brothers there than not there. And a lot of them weren't sports guys, it was just a fun brotherhood event where we could get rowdy and have a good time supporting the school. We probably had more students at the games between semesters than the average game has today when the students are on campus. I don't know why the students don't care these days. My daughter is a freshman in the KWC music program and the band director won't even discuss having a pep band on a regular basis. He begrudgingly does one game a year, maybe two simply because the admin forces him to. It's really disappointing.

And you're spot on about the musical chairs bit. I'd even take the 80 year old dude that comes in and shoots 3 pointers for halftime entertainment. Do SOMETHING that's actually entertaining! I'd like to know what ever happened to the airplane toss for pizza at halftime.

As for ping-pong, well, you might as well get used to it. It does you no good to argue about it, believe me. Been there, done that, and have consciously decided not to bother in the future.

[pantherfan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

You make a good point. My teammates and I used to go to the games because it was free entertainment for some fund-strapped college boys. We enjoyed it, but the student turnout has gone down even since I was there just 10 years ago! As for the band, that's poor on their director's part. Another platform to showcase their passion should be a no-brainer! I always wondered why there wasn't a pep band when the school has an active music program.

I'll heed the advice, and do appreciate it. Just hate to see people down on the team when it's clear Cooper is working to bring the program back to a program fans can be proud of.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Cedarville attendance is way down too. Cedarville's enrollment is probably about 1500 higher than when I was there and the average attendance at MBB games is probably at least 800 less. The days of 3000 fans appear to be long gone. The athletics website used to list the top attendance games at Callan. They don't list them anymore - I'm guessing because the lack of recent dates on the list made it embarrassing. The school used to do a good job of making it seem like you were attending something very relevant. I don't think they are able to do that any longer. Kids have more money, increased access to cars (allowing them to get off campus) and an endless supply of online media/entertainment/interaction. Overall, I think today's students are more aware of the bigger world out there and aren't as captivated by the campus bubble.

[Knightmoves]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

College basketball attendance is down, period. KWC's attendance will increase with winning, but it is highly unlikely to get back to the glory days, regardless of how much winning and marketing they do. The reason attendance is down across the board is simple and obvious, there are a s%#t load of games on television.

The only way that D2 basketball can stay even partly relevant in the eyes of fans is to pursue aggressive on line live broadcasting and get a small share of the "TV" market. The access must be free and revenue will have to come from advertisers.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

College basketball attendance is down, period. KWC's attendance will increase with winning, but it is highly unlikely to get back to the glory days, regardless of how much winning and marketing they do. The reason attendance is down across the board is simple and obvious, there are a s%#t load of games on television.

The only way that D2 basketball can stay even partly relevant in the eyes of fans is to pursue aggressive on line live broadcasting and get a small share of the "TV" market. The access must be free and revenue will have to come from advertisers.

I agree that the D1 live games is a big contributor. Like I said above, CU used to do a great job of making our games feel relevant. That was much easier to do when there weren't so many nationally televised games every night. Back in the day, Ohio State, Dayton and Cincy usually weren't getting many of their games televised either. There was an apparent sameness across college basketball. Groups of people all over the county were gathered in gyms to watch college teams play in untelevised games. Now, with the plethora of live TV and steamed games out there, there is a more in-you-face media gap between D1 and everybody else; and small schools have a bigger hill to climb to fight for perceived relevance.

It might sound counterintuitive that broadcasting your games on well-known platforms (like ESPN3) would help local attendance, but I absolutely think it would. It makes you feel like you are going to a relevant event if is being "televised" and at least an option on the ESPN app. I'm probably invoking a bit of a "fake it until you make it" mentality; but it seems like the next needed step to me. In my mind, schools and conferences should be willing to broadcast to a know/legit/accessible platform even if it comes at a slight financial loss.

[Looking For 9]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

There are many things that affect attendance. Good (winning) basketball will get more in the seats.

I think the local paper has hurt KWC for many years. It seems to be getting better time will tell. Local kids that are active on campus and good stories in the MI and winning would get more to the SC.

There is NOT a team or their coaches that deserves more support than KWC WBB. Good players, good kids, good role models, good basketball, a real team, etc.

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Findlay-1068
KWC-1055
Cedarville-901
Alderson-647
Walsh-594
Hillsdale- 546
Trevecca-469
Ohio Dominican-441
Malone- 401
Davis and Elikins- 329
Tiffin- 256
Ohio Valley-237
Lake Erie- 166

1055 per game at home in a 5,000 seat arena. How many of those counted in attendance are regular season ticket holders? In the past all regular season ticket holders were counted in the attendance whether they were at the games or not. I assume that is still the case because tickets are sold for all home games to regular season ticket holders, which I am pretty sure is also down. It is true that all D2 programs are mostly averaging less people per game than years ago. If TV is destroying college basketball attendance, why is it that DI Programs still fill huge arenas? DI games are mostly the only games you will find on television. I think D2 basketball has lost a lot of luster and local support across the entire Division II spectrum.

We'll see how the attendance does after the next five games, and how the attendance finishes. However, the average attendance this season would shock previous coaching staffs. Anyone who has followed Wesleyan basketball knows the program is just a shell of what it use to be in terms of wins and in terms of attendance. That is a fact, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. The point is 1,055 in average TICKET SALES is about as low as I have ever seen it. If anyone can dispute that with a factual statistic, please do. The program this year is about as far removed from any conference, regional or national tournament aspirations as I have ever seen. Losing at home to Salem and an NAIA team in the Thanksgiving tournament is the worst Thanksgiving tournament play I have ever seen.

Even the GLVC attendance is down and when Wesleyan left the GLVC it hurt the GLVC and it hurt KWC. I see no great advantages in the conference move now. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I really don't know how the administration or the BOT feels about the athletic program now.
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_bask...Attendance.pdf

[pantherfan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I guess you're right. Just imagine what will happen if YOUR wildest dreams come true and they turn into a D3 program?! I guess attendance will drop below 300 and coaches of past will roll over in their graves and the SC will be demolished and they will play on campus, and at that point why even have a team? It seems you will never be satisfied. Or you will for a week and then you won't anymore. The administration/ BOT has made 2 significant coaching hires (including a football coach to turn around a program that has been accepted as sedentary for years) and has invested in facility upgrades across the board, as well as continuing to add athletics programs. Even someone with ZERO insight can see that they are invested in the future success of the athletics program as a whole.

At the end of the day, 1055 fans int something to be mad at. I know when my season ticket is punched as I walk through the door they hit a clicker to tally entries. Maybe that is compared to season ticket purchases, but that 1055 could be an accurate attendance number as opposed to purchases, I don't know how their system works.

[pantherfan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I also dont think it's valid to compare the attendance against the size of the arena. Having watched many of the away games online, some of the GMAC teams play in smaller gyms than I did in middle school. KWC having the luxury of playing in a larger arena is home court advantage regardless of the ratio of attendance to capacity.

[kdubnation]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I'd say the admin and BOT feel pretty decent about the athletics program seeing as they're hiring coaches of the quality of Cooper and Craig Yeast, starting new programs (bowling, wrestling, track & field, cross country) and seeing more competitiveness on the field with several programs than we have ever had (volleyball, baseball, women's basketball, women's soccer). Even the teams that aren't necessarily winning right now aren't being blown out every game like they did in the GLVC.

As for the D1 vs. D2 attendance question, the Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, North Carolina, etc are ALWAYS going to fill their arenas. But if you watch many games on TV you'll see that a LOT of the games that don't feature those elite teams with their cult followings are playing in sparsely populated arenas. And you have to figure that these schools are getting their best attendance numbers out of those games that are on TV, especially with the students, because they're marketing it as such.

So if we DID make a move - at some point years from now - to play somewhere other than the Sportscenter, what I would like is to see KWC build a nice, modern, smaller arena on campus. 2000-2500 seats maybe. The HRC is simply not big enough and not designed for public events. Even if the gym itself would work, there's NO parking. It's ok for volleyball or wrestling which are not overly popular sports and won't ever build up to huge attendance numbers even if KWC suddenly became the premier program in D2. There's just not that much interest in them.