Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Wesleyan is in dead last in the President Cup Standings. That may change a little because the women's basketball team is good and the baseball team will be good. Not so much for the other programs, unless the softball team does well and they probably will. Those three programs have good coaches that know the league. I had a big long post about this Findlay game that got lost in editing, probably a good thing. What I want to know is does anyone really think this men's basketball team could win a respectable amount of games next season with these players? I am not knocking the players now. I am just presenting a hypothetical situation.

I have not seen the men's basketball program this low outside of the probation era ever, and even during the probation era those players were working their azzes off. Those guys were nothing but guts and sweat during that period playing with just enough players to field a team. Now, 864 persons in attendance against a ranked team and the top team in the G-MAC? I have never seen attendance for this program at this low level before. It is just bad. I don't care what anyone thinks about this post. This is not Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball. This is a shadow that thinks it is a Kentucky Wesleyan basketball team. Prove me wrong.

[pantherfan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Please provide a link to the President Cup standings.

[WKYDave]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Please provide a link to the President Cup standings.

https://greatmidwestsports.com/sport...DENTS_CUP.aspx

These points will be converted to percentages and then averaged (for example KWC's 3 football points will convert to .333 since there are 9 points max but their 3 points in women's soccer will convert to .231 since there is max of 13 points). If they did that now KWC would not be last, but close to it. Part of KWC's problem is they are competeing in so many new sports. Do we think we are going to be super competitive in XC, wrestling, tennis when we are starting from scratch? Soccer is a problem because now D2 schools are recruiting overseas players and KWC doesn't.

[BlueBlood]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I think they changed the scoring to straight-up points. Below is my write-up from earlier in the year.

The G-MAC updated the Presidents' Cup stats to include all Fall sports. It looks like they may have changed the scoring format.

The conference now says that the Presidents' Cup will be awarded to the institution that collects the highest tally of points. It used to use a percentage that divided each schools points earned by the maximum points that school could have earned. Basically, you were only judged on the sports you participated in (with required sports outlined in the bylaws). For Presidents' Cup placement, a school was better off not participating in a non-required sport than fielding a sub-par team.

If they are in fact changing the method, this will be more advantageous to those schools that play a lot of sports (whether they win or not). It will hurt schools that play less sports (even if they are very successfully at the sports they play).

[pantherfan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Thanks for the link and the info on points! I was just curious how much input the MBB program actually had into that standing and it appears that it's relatively low. Our soccer and XC programs really hit it low, I hope Alumnifan is bashing them on another message board! And I'm very glad to see attendance plays absolutely ZERO factor in the Cup standings. I thought the crowd for the games this weekend was very involved. I saw several groups of students, and the pep band was a great addition. A few more people in there and that's a SOLID atmosphere.

I expect Wesleyan to win 10 games this year, which many of us stated would be a reasonable goal for the team before the season started. And with that win total, they may be just on the brink of the conference tournament. And I think it's clear they have worked hard. They had improved greatly from the beginning of the season until Zavon got hurt. That kid can be a game changer and I think losing him hurt the team as a whole. I do honestly see the potential for this team to win a respectable amount of games in the next 2-3 seasons. Honestly I think with the type of players Cooper is recruiting, we look like a young Hillsdale type of squad. We need a 5 player, which may be Smith if he's healthy. I don't think we have much roster room to recruit a ton of kids for next year, but I'm expecting Cooper and his staff to bring in a strong class in 2 years.

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

"I expect Wesleyan to win 10 games this year, which many of us stated would be a reasonable goal for the team before the season started. And with that win total, they may be just on the brink of the conference tournament. And I think it's clear they have worked hard. They had improved greatly from the beginning of the season until Zavon got hurt. That kid can be a game changer and I think losing him hurt the team as a whole. I do honestly see the potential for this team to win a respectable amount of games in the next 2-3 seasons. Honestly I think with the type of players Cooper is recruiting, we look like a young Hillsdale type of squad. We need a 5 player, which may be Smith if he's healthy. I don't think we have much roster room to recruit a ton of kids for next year, but I'm expecting Cooper and his staff to bring in a strong class in 2 years." -

What you fail to understand is the fact that I am for Kentucky Wesleyan. I want KWC to win. I gave money to the athletic program this year. However, from an early age I was taught to review everything through critical analysis (especially as a student at Kentucky Wesleyan College). One can praise and adore all you want, but coaches and even fans should not be the kind of voice that says, "everything is great and we are so happy that our men's basketball team is doing so well." Everyone is held accountable in professional services. I heard there was no financial problems at Kentucky Wesleyan. According to public sources KWC has an endowment of $36.1 million dollars. I doubt it is that high now because that was in 2017. The last quarter of 2018 caused serious damage to managed endowments and pensions, etc.. Still, even with the financial hit to the DOW during the fourth quarter in 2018, the endowment could have fell anywhere form 8% to 15%. I don't know what the current endowment is, but I would say it should be well over $30 million.

You seem to believe that I want Kentucky Wesleyan to fail in men's basketball and athletics. That is FALSE! Caleb and Nicole Nieman, Coach Todd Lillpop, and the women's softball programs are doing well. The women's basketball program could win the conference this season and make some noise in the NCAA tournament. Todd Lillpop always produces a quality college baseball team. Coach Mallette is a great guy and a very good college softball coach. Critical analysis is based on percentages and other data in sports like basketball. I ask the question - Does anyone think these current players could win next season? I give to Kentucky Wesleyan. I don't talk to anyone about KWC athletics, except for my posts on this message board. I have followed the KWC Men's Basketball program and other KWC athletic teams for almost forty years. I have the right to freedom of speech.

I am not happy with the looks of the current men's basketball program at KWC, my Alma mater.

It is not Kentucky Wesleyan's tradition to field a men's basketball program like the current one they have. If everybody is satisfied, including the fans, the alumni, the donors, the administration and the Director of Athletics, then I am good. I know they are good kids, but there is something fundamentally WRONG with the KWC Men's Basketball Team at the present. I know it is his first year, but they are underwhelming. That should not be the case. I hope they remedy the situation, and if you think 900 people is a big crowd for Kentucky Wesleyan basketball, you are trying to justify.

This is from the KWC Athletic Website about the Facilities at Kentucky Wesleyan - "Kentucky Wesleyan opened its playing career in the Sportscenter on February 26, 1951 before a full house against Centre College. The Panthers won 114-71. Nearly 20 NCAA regional championships have been staged at the Owensboro Sportscenter. Wesleyan annually ranks among the nation's top 10 teams in attendance."

This team has not won ten games yet, and even if they do the team will still have under achieved.

[WKYDave]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Just to be sure no one has their hopes up...there is no way KWC makes conference tournament (Ok maybe 5% chance tops). The bottom 4 in the conference are Tiffin, D&E, Ohio Valley, and Trevecca. KWC only has 2 games against those teams but AB has 4 and Malone 3. KWC needs 2 upsets that the other other teams don't get. Even beating AB here to get our 10th win won't get us above AB.

[kdubnation]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

After half a season obviously Cooper should have these guys in form to win a national title. I say run him out of town and hire Rick Pitino back from Greece. Let him provide cash and hookers to recruits and bring in 15 new one year D1 transfers every season because by gum then they'd LOOK like a KWC basketball team.

Or...or....maybe give the man a couple of years to rebuild the program. But nah, that's crazy talk. They haven't magically transformed into the 1999 Harper team yet, so sack 'im! Sack 'im!

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

After half a season obviously Cooper should have these guys in form to win a national title. I say run him out of town and hire Rick Pitino back from Greece. Let him provide cash and hookers to recruits and bring in 15 new one year D1 transfers every season because by gum then they'd LOOK like a KWC basketball team.

Or...or....maybe give the man a couple of years to rebuild the program. But nah, that's crazy talk.

He will get a couple of years unless the college or someone buys his contract out. Nobody is saying he should leave after this season. Also, I have never heard of KWC leaving a coach high and dry in any sport. They always seem to manage in another venue somewhere unless they retire.

I will pose another question to you. Let's say KWC almost makes the G-MAC tournament, since their RPI according to Schnautza is 200 out of 299 teams. When in the name of Peter, Paul and Mary did KWC Men's basketball team rank in the lower .333 percentile at season's end without being on probation? Or...or...ask Roy if this team is better than any other team KWC has had?

[pantherfan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I don't think you want Wesleyan to fail, I just think you are bipolar in posts. And saying Lillpop has always produced a quality team is downright unrealistic. through his first 15 seasons at KWC he had 315 wins. With an average of 45 games a season, that is 315 wins in 675 games for a winning percentage of 46%. That would make him a mediocre coach. If Cooper stays 15 years and has a win percentage of 46% I am CERTAIN you wouldn't say he produces quality programs. And I am a big fan of the Niemans. They have done a great job for the WBB program. But last summer you said Caleb should be the school's AD. Obviously you are very partial to them. I also did not say 900 is a big crowd for the Sportscenter. I said we had an involved crowd. Had there been 10,000 people in there the team still wouldn't have beat a top 25 team in Findlay. As much as you refuse to recognize it, attendance doesn't do jack for wins. Ohio Dominican won the conference last year and they average 441 in attendance. what I do is constantly produce facts and you constantly say "Attendance at the SC is terrible".

If i didn't care about the program and the team I wouldn't respond to you. I have respect for the grind these boys are in under a new head coach. And I'm having much more fun watching this team lose games than i did watching last year's team lose games. All I have asked of you is to give Cooper a shot. Cooper's first year at TM he went 15-12, his final season there he went 23-6. Let him build the program.

[pantherfan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

Just to be sure no one has their hopes up...there is no way KWC makes conference tournament (Ok maybe 5% chance tops). The bottom 4 in the conference are Tiffin, D&E, Ohio Valley, and Trevecca. KWC only has 2 games against those teams but AB has 4 and Malone 3. KWC needs 2 upsets that the other other teams don't get. Even beating AB here to get our 10th win won't get us above AB.

It is a bit of a long shot. But I see them beating Tiffin, Erie, and D&E. A win against AB would be 11 wins, but is unlikely. The ending season schedule is a tough one. Maybe they beat Malone on the road for win 11. Even so, it is unlikely they make the tournament given that their remaining schedule is mostly against the tougher teams as you've stated. I was just saying that adding 3 conference wins probably puts them on the brink ,so maybe they are the first out.

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I don't think you want Wesleyan to fail, I just think you are bipolar in posts.

I think you are misinterpreting my point. When the team is doing well, I often say good things about them. When they are playing bad, I call it like I see it. I am not the kind of person that believes one should never be criticized or evaluated in their profession. Give him another season. The school will want to, but I can promise you there are supporters with a lot more pull than myself who will be questioning his tenure (because I have no pull at KWC). In all fairness he should come back for another year and the administration should start a silent search if his team next year is projected to not make the G-MAC tournament. As to your bipolar statement, you can stick that up your azz.

[pantherfan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

"And saying Lillpop has always produced a quality team is downright unrealistic. through his first 15 seasons at KWC he had 315 wins. With an average of 45 games a season, that is 315 wins in 675 games for a winning percentage of 46%. That would make him a mediocre coach. If Cooper stays 15 years and has a win percentage of 46% I am CERTAIN you wouldn't say he produces quality programs. And I am a big fan of the Niemans. They have done a great job for the WBB program. But last summer you said Caleb should be the school's AD. Obviously you are very partial to them."

Nothing to address your other statements?

I think I have criticized Cooper's rotations, and lack of a post presence. But I also recognize that there is talent on the floor and I can see what he is working to get towards. He should be at the school for no less than 3 more years regardless of the meaningless GMAC predictions. Programs aren't entirely rebuilt in one or two years. The senior class he will have in 3 years has LOADS of talent and ability.

[kdubnation]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I think you are misinterpreting my point. When the team is doing well, I often say good things about them. When they are playing bad, I call it like I see it. I am not the kind of person that believes one should never be criticized or evaluated in their profession. Give him another season. The school will want to, but I can promise you there are supporters with a lot more pull than myself who will be questioning his tenure (because I have no pull at KWC). In all fairness he should come back for another year and the administration should start a silent search if his team next year is projected to not make the G-MAC tournament. As to your bipolar statement, you can stick that up your azz.

If your point is being misinterpreted it's because you are terrible at stating it. When the team is doing good you DO say positive things. When the team is doing bad, you aren't critical of their play, you are critical of the entire administration, call for the AD and school president to be replaced, question the school's finances, bash other sports programs at the school, and basically make a damn fool out of yourself. It would be very different if you came on here and said "man the team's doing crappy, this ain't going to cut it". In fact, the whole "this ain't going to cut it" statement is even something I can agree with - I won't speak for others but my guess is they would agree - but the statements you make come chock full of the implication that there is no leeway for righting the ship and that everyone and their brother should be fired in the athletic department so we can bring in someone that knows what they're doing.

It's also a tough pill to swallow to hear someone gripe about attendance being down when I know for a fact they haven't been to a game in multiple seasons. Maybe there is a very good reason for that. That's fine - I promise you I am not holding it against you, it just makes the complaint ironic if nothing else. I'm disappointed in attendance, too, mind you. Have been since Happy Osborne's first season. And it just keeps getting worse. But there's no quick fix for that. The school could go out and give away 1000 tickets for the next game at elementary schools or something like that, and maybe that drives up attendance for that game by 300 or 400. But that's not going to translate into hundreds more for every game afterwards. So what WILL fix attendance? Winning. And that's going to take some time! We all knew that coming into this season! There have been times when this team looked like it was going to surpass expectations ... and there's been times when they look like they might not win another game this year. That's part of a total rebuild! I have missed 1 or 2 games a season for the last couple of years, and those were due to activities my kids had going on. Hell, Saturday I was at the high school regional bowling tournament in Paducah, drove home the 2+ hours, went inside and changed shirts, and got to the Sportscenter about 2 minutes before halftime. But by damn I was there vocally supporting those guys as soon as I could be!

If 3 years from now the KWC MBB team is playing like it is now, then absolutely, we've got some big time problems. And yes, it's a free country, you can say whatever you want and all that fun stuff, but in my ever-so-humble opinion, coming on here and blasting them as not looking like a KWC team and there's something horribly wrong with the program, and throwing out completely unrelated and incorrect things such as the school being in financial trouble and so on is at best not helpful, and at worst damaging to what the new staff and athletic administration are trying to do, which is rebuild the program the "right" way.

[alumnifan]

Re: Kentucky Wesleyan Basketball

I told you to kiss my azz because you brought up that bipolar statement, and you told me I was a damn fool. I never called into question Wesleyan's financial accountability. I know the college has raised money. The endowment money will come back if they lost any, but everybody who is vested in the stock market (through various means) lost money in the fourth quarter last year. That is no fault of the college if that what is what you thought I was getting after. I don't know if they lost any, but my guess is they DID. Because everybody did.

As to what I say on this board, much of it is just hyperbole in order to piss off people like you. I really can't remember what other athletic teams I criticized unless you are talking about the football team. Yeah, I was pretty glad when Holsclaw left and he wanted to come after me personally, and that would have been a mistake. He ran that football program into the ground year after year after year. He was a good college player, but there was no reason for him to stay year after year after year with the losses mounting up year after year. One has to question why the college allowed that to happen, there had to be a reason. But.....whatever the reason - Craig Yeast will right the ship. I have PRAISED THAT HIRE.

I don't go to the games anymore because I am afraid one of the big wheels will send the law after me and throw me in the Daviess County jail. I don't live near Owensboro now, but I gave more to the athletic program this year than what any season ticket would cost. I don't like season tickets anyway, because you have to be an insider to sit in those comfy blue chairs. I would rather sit up in the upper teer with the fellas from the Special Adult Residential Facility. That is the truth, and I saw that elderly gentlemen die in front of my eyes that night, and when he died I felt his spirit leave and it tore me up. You can believe that or not. But, calling me a damn fool puts the shoe with a hole in the sole on your foot.