PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

Today's the day the NCAA group that approves the PASSHE mergers from an athletics perspective meets. Probably no news until Wednesday.

PASSHE board met last week - no tuition increase (meaning more cuts since PASSHE gives most employees two raises a year while revenue is stagnant at best).

They also gave Mansfield another loan to stay afloat - this one $7 million. It appears they're on the Cheyney plan to make a budget and hold nobody accountable to it. Total Mansfield debt to PASSHE for operating revenue gaps: $20 million. https://www.northcentralpa.com/mansf...b357895c7.html

[Ship69]

Today's the day the NCAA group that approves the PASSHE mergers from an athletics perspective meets. Probably no news until Wednesday.

PASSHE board met last week - no tuition increase (meaning more cuts since PASSHE gives most employees two raises a year while revenue is stagnant at best).

They also gave Mansfield another loan to stay afloat - this one $7 million. It appears they're on the Cheyney plan to make a budget and hold nobody accountable to it. Total Mansfield debt to PASSHE for operating revenue gaps: $20 million. https://www.northcentralpa.com/mansf...b357895c7.html

Doesn't help that state funding has been relatively stagnant or dropped for the past 20 years. I believe the state budget for the entire system is something over $500 million. Guess we need to find some sugar daddies somewhere.

[iupgroundhog]

Today's the day the NCAA group that approves the PASSHE mergers from an athletics perspective meets. Probably no news until Wednesday.

PASSHE board met last week - no tuition increase (meaning more cuts since PASSHE gives most employees two raises a year while revenue is stagnant at best).

They also gave Mansfield another loan to stay afloat - this one $7 million. It appears they're on the Cheyney plan to make a budget and hold nobody accountable to it. Total Mansfield debt to PASSHE for operating revenue gaps: $20 million. https://www.northcentralpa.com/mansf...b357895c7.html

The Mansfield situation is outrageous, IMO. So, who bears responsibility for that level of mismanagement? Is it people at Mansfield, is it Greenfield, is it Hanna? Looks like people making excuses about it. Once a school gets down to a certain size, I don't think the plan works. You can't downsize it more. You have to make a drastic change. I think Mansfield should be online-only. That way you can stop the financial hemorrhaging and it can still serve the local area without being completely closed.

[IUPNation]

The Mansfield situation is outrageous, IMO. So, who bears responsibility for that level of mismanagement? Is it people at Mansfield, is it Greenfield, is it Hanna? Looks like people making excuses about it. Once a school gets down to a certain size, I don't think the plan works. You can't downsize it more. You have to make a drastic change. I think Mansfield should be online-only. That way you can stop the financial hemorrhaging and it can still serve the local area without being completely closed.

[Fightingscot82]

The Mansfield situation is outrageous, IMO. So, who bears responsibility for that level of mismanagement? Is it people at Mansfield, is it Greenfield, is it Hanna? Looks like people making excuses about it. Once a school gets down to a certain size, I don't think the plan works. You can't downsize it more. You have to make a drastic change. I think Mansfield should be online-only. That way you can stop the financial hemorrhaging and it can still serve the local area without being completely closed.

To quote the band Dawes, it's a little bit of everything. Hanna hasn't been in charge long so he bears the least blame. Greenstein is only to blame for concocting this stupid merger plan. I think the blame lies the most with the PASSHE Board of Governors and the local Councils of Trustees. They all sat there and took every administrator in the last 20 years at face value. Some of it was cockeyed optimism, some of it was falsehood. They also allowed first time presidents to enact really half-baked tuition pricing gimmicks. You know how/why someone will attend a place like Mansfield? Its cheap and they feel comfortable/wanted.

Mansfield might have the #2 music program in PASSHE after West Chester. That alone might be worth keeping them open in person.

[iupgroundhog]

To quote the band Dawes, it's a little bit of everything. Hanna hasn't been in charge long so he bears the least blame. Greenstein is only to blame for concocting this stupid merger plan. I think the blame lies the most with the PASSHE Board of Governors and the local Councils of Trustees. They all sat there and took every administrator in the last 20 years at face value. Some of it was cockeyed optimism, some of it was falsehood. They also allowed first time presidents to enact really half-baked tuition pricing gimmicks. You know how/why someone will attend a place like Mansfield? Its cheap and they feel comfortable/wanted.

Mansfield might have the #2 music program in PASSHE after West Chester. That alone might be worth keeping them open in person.

A lot of goof points there. It's true about Music. But my guess is that Music draws from a wide geography. Move it to Lock Haven. Have the Steinways shipped back.

[Fightingscot82]

A lot of goof points there. It's true about Music. But my guess is that Music draws from a wide geography. Move it to Lock Haven. Have the Steinways shipped back.

Music is a good example of the lack of individuality and strategic direction for the 14 schools. Really only Cheyney has a niche in culture and academic focus. The other 13 schools all generalized in the mold of comprehensive liberal arts schools. That sounds great to faculty and deans but now students don't want to study liberal arts at our schools. The system didn't need 12 music degree programs. That's 12 programs on top of those at Carnegie Mellon, Pitt, Duquesne, Mercyhurst, Allegheny, Messiah, Lebanon Valley, Temple, Curtis Institute, etc. Both Edinboro and Clarion cut their music programs, which had wide reaches. There were not similar increases in interest at the remaining PASSHE music programs on that side of the state, IUP and Slippery Rock. In fact both are down a lot too. Art and music are a losing proposition for mediocre programs and small schools: its very expensive compared to other majors and beyond art/music education there is general uncertainty about what you do post-graduation and most real jobs using those degrees are gig work with low pay and no benefits. Not exactly attractive when you're expecting to carry $30k in loan debt.

[iupgroundhog]

Music is a good example of the lack of individuality and strategic direction for the 14 schools. Really only Cheyney has a niche in culture and academic focus. The other 13 schools all generalized in the mold of comprehensive liberal arts schools. That sounds great to faculty and deans but now students don't want to study liberal arts at our schools. The system didn't need 12 music degree programs. That's 12 programs on top of those at Carnegie Mellon, Pitt, Duquesne, Mercyhurst, Allegheny, Messiah, Lebanon Valley, Temple, Curtis Institute, etc. Both Edinboro and Clarion cut their music programs, which had wide reaches. There were not similar increases in interest at the remaining PASSHE music programs on that side of the state, IUP and Slippery Rock. In fact both are down a lot too. Art and music are a losing proposition for mediocre programs and small schools: its very expensive compared to other majors and beyond art/music education there is general uncertainty about what you do post-graduation and most real jobs using those degrees are gig work with low pay and no benefits. Not exactly attractive when you're expecting to carry $30k in loan debt.

BTW, I meant good points, not goof points. We've got enough of those already.

What you're describing is a different overall philosophy for each university. My gut tells me that Music is necessary in an academic community/University. What you are saying is that the schools can no longer all be "comprehensive" universities and that is probably true.

It's not about IUP but regarding IUP I can remember when IUP Music grads held down some ridiculous % of HS Band Director positions in PA public schools. It was really high, like over 50%.

But I understand times have changed.

In a few years, the PASSHE schools are going to lose that well-rounded, Comprehensive university identity. It's sad, but inevitable.

When you look at this Mansfield bailout, it seems to be in opposition to the entire concept behind the stated merger philosophy. This is not supposed to happen.

[Fightingscot82]

BTW, I meant good points, not goof points. We've got enough of those already.

What you're describing is a different overall philosophy for each university. My gut tells me that Music is necessary in an academic community/University. What you are saying is that the schools can no longer all be "comprehensive" universities and that is probably true.

It's not about IUP but regarding IUP I can remember when IUP Music grads held down some ridiculous % of HS Band Director positions in PA public schools. It was really high, like over 50%.

But I understand times have changed.

In a few years, the PASSHE schools are going to lose that well-rounded, Comprehensive university identity. It's sad, but inevitable.

When you look at this Mansfield bailout, it seems to be in opposition to the entire concept behind the stated merger philosophy. This is not supposed to happen.

I think there's a huge difference between offering classes in a subject and offering a degree program. One is about educational philosophy, the other about market demand.

You're right about IUP music educators but they had that market cut out from under them by Slippery Rock, Duquesne, and Youngstown State.

[iupgroundhog]

I think there's a huge difference between offering classes in a subject and offering a degree program. One is about educational philosophy, the other about market demand.

You're right about IUP music educators but they had that market cut out from under them by Slippery Rock, Duquesne, and Youngstown State.

I don't know what the situation is today but that sounds like a Pittsburgh perspective.

[Fightingscot82]

I don't know what the situation is today but that sounds like a Pittsburgh perspective.

Sure because that's where I am and the region IUP is most invested in. Growing up, all my music teachers went to IUP and Duquesne. One went to Edinboro. But in high school I started getting music student teachers from YSU and SRU. My kids' five music teachers are from Duquesne and YSU.

[IUPNation]

The state of the IUP Marching Band tells the sad story of music at IUP these days.

Still no update on a new band director to salvage the wreckage and put Crimson Abomination out of its misery?

[GregD]

Music is a good example of the lack of individuality and strategic direction for the 14 schools. Really only Cheyney has a niche in culture and academic focus. The other 13 schools all generalized in the mold of comprehensive liberal arts schools. That sounds great to faculty and deans but now students don't want to study liberal arts at our schools. The system didn't need 12 music degree programs. That's 12 programs on top of those at Carnegie Mellon, Pitt, Duquesne, Mercyhurst, Allegheny, Messiah, Lebanon Valley, Temple, Curtis Institute, etc. Both Edinboro and Clarion cut their music programs, which had wide reaches. There were not similar increases in interest at the remaining PASSHE music programs on that side of the state, IUP and Slippery Rock. In fact both are down a lot too. Art and music are a losing proposition for mediocre programs and small schools: its very expensive compared to other majors and beyond art/music education there is general uncertainty about what you do post-graduation and most real jobs using those degrees are gig work with low pay and no benefits. Not exactly attractive when you're expecting to carry $30k in loan debt.

It would be good if you knew what you are writing about, but in in major portions of your post you do not.

[iupgroundhog]

It should be noted that Chad Hurley was an Art major.

[Fightingscot82]

It would be good if you knew what you are writing about, but in in major portions of your post you do not.

Okay, please enlighten me.