"HURST OUT OF PSAC?

[TheBigCat2192]

I'd much prefer West Liberty or Fairmont State. Both their geography is adequate to the West.

Neither of them is particularly enticing in football to my eyes but I think I’d prefer Fairmont if those two plus Frostburg were the three options on the table. WLU would be a killer addition for bball so I do understand why people like that idea.

[Fightingscot82]

My point is actually quite simple. Schools have been telling us that they’re having trouble staying afloat with delayed FAFSA disbursements. Obviously the money goes to the student first and then the student pays for the school but it’s eventually ending up at College U. So how many small schools would have to close if there’s another disbursement delay due to technical issues, let alone an actual cut? And how many of them wouldn’t be there without it? Before anyone misunderstands this is not advocacy for cutting FAFSA. That’s the kind of thing likely to get a thread destroyed and I do my best to keep things football related. It only came to mind because of the press release from Frostburg specifically mentioning it. Just a thought experiment about the risks.

It doesn't go to the student, but it follows them. It works like health insurance. The bill the student gets is a net balance after payments from financial aid (if any). The payment goes straight from the federal or state government to the school on behalf of the student just like Highmark pays my doctor on my behalf then I get a bill for anything left over.

But related to what you said, a lot of schools. No matter what the public thinks, most schools especially those at D2 operate on a very thin margin. Unrestricted net assets at the end of the fiscal year is usually less than 1%. A lot of schools are operating on budgeted deficits and using reserves from years past to cover. There have been some attempts to grade schools on their financial health but when you're talking about 80% of your revenue coming from third party funding.

[TheBigCat2192]

It doesn't go to the student, but it follows them. It works like health insurance.

Honest mistake on my part. When I was a student I used a mix of FAFSA money and a private loan and mixed up the processes of the two as it’s been a while since I dealt with them.

[Fightingscot82]

I guess the other question to ask is - who’s a realistic option to replace Mercyhurst in our geographic footprint that isn’t facing sone sort of financial problem? Given the archetype of our members I have to imagine the pool is pretty small. I haven’t been beating the drum for trying to poach Frostburg but if they’re the best the conference can get athletically it might still be worth inviting them financial issues or not.

I know universities pretty well and to be honest, I'd argue the answer is that there isn't one. Frostburg State remains the best option, even though they're trimming. I don't think they're unstable by any means - besides, they're a state university so they have the backing of the Maryland state government. In terms of the hierarchy of state universities in Maryland, they're middle of the pack. Beyond Frostburg, our next best option might be West Liberty (outside of Wheeling, WV) or convincing a school to change classifications from D3 or the NEC, and I don't see any of those happening. MAYBE one of the football playing state universities in New Jersey but that would require moving Lock Haven or Ship back to the West. There are a few D3 football schools who used to be NAIA and were regular non-conference games for PSAC schools: Geneva, Waynesburg, and Westminster. But they're all hitting their own struggles as well. I don't see St. Francis or RMU moving down to where they should be and I can't think of a good option in Ohio or New York. SUNY Fredonia is an hour from Erie right off I-90 but they would have to move up to D2 and add football (ironically they were the longtime summer camp home of the Bills). I'd like to avoid a private if possible. Unless there are secrets we don't know, its a turd sandwich situation for the home office.

[Fightingscot82]

Honest mistake on my part. When I was a student I used a mix of FAFSA money and a private loan and mixed up the processes of the two as it’s been a while since I dealt with them.

And by no fault of your own. Its a muddy process and it all just changed with a piss poor rollout. Plus in PA and some other states, the FAFSA talks to the state for any state grants.

[TheBigCat2192]

I know universities pretty well and to be honest, I'd argue the answer is that there isn't one. Frostburg State remains the best option, even though they're trimming. I don't think they're unstable by any means - besides, they're a state university so they have the backing of the Maryland state government. In terms of the hierarchy of state universities in Maryland, they're middle of the pack. Beyond Frostburg, our next best option might be West Liberty (outside of Wheeling, WV) or convincing a school to change classifications from D3 or the NEC, and I don't see any of those happening. MAYBE one of the football playing state universities in New Jersey but that would require moving Lock Haven or Ship back to the West. There are a few D3 football schools who used to be NAIA and were regular non-conference games for PSAC schools: Geneva, Waynesburg, and Westminster. But they're all hitting their own struggles as well. I don't see St. Francis or RMU moving down to where they should be and I can't think of a good option in Ohio or New York. SUNY Fredonia is an hour from Erie right off I-90 but they would have to move up to D2 and add football (ironically they were the longtime summer camp home of the Bills). I'd like to avoid a private if possible. Unless there are secrets we don't know, its a turd sandwich situation for the home office.

From a strictly football perspective it’s a shame that Ashland is too far west in Ohio. The GMAC doesn’t look unstable like the MEC but I imagine they can’t be happy getting put back into a Super Region with the GLIAC less than five years after leaving to get away from the Big 2. If they were closer to the border I’d at least give them a call even though they’re private.

[Fightingscot82]

From a strictly football perspective it’s a shame that Ashland is too far west in Ohio. The GMAC doesn’t look unstable like the MEC but I imagine they can’t be happy getting put back into a Super Region with the GLIAC less than five years after leaving to get away from the Big 2. If they were closer to the border I’d at least give them a call even though they’re private.

Walsh and Lake Erie are closer but both have troublesome future outlooks.

[EastStroud13]

If we could convince West Liberty to drop football, I'd be on board with adding them. But they have been mediocre for so damn long, it is hard for me to see them as anything but filler. Yes, they are strong in men's basketball, but it's not like they are strong across the board in such a way that suggests it's only a matter of time until their football program improves.

My order of adds is still Frostburg, then Fairmont, then West Liberty. Frostburg is (for now) the only one that has either Women's Lacrosse or Field Hockey, which are the only two sports where the PSAC is a consistent player on the national stage. Fairmont has more of a track record than WL in terms of football success, and they're solid in most other sports (including men's basketball).

Practically, it would be best for the conference if Mansfield dropped D2 sports and Clarion dropped football altogether, rather than adding a potential question mark. But, much more challenging politically.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

If we could convince West Liberty to drop football, I'd be on board with adding them. But they have been mediocre for so damn long, it is hard for me to see them as anything but filler. Yes, they are strong in men's basketball, but it's not like they are strong across the board in such a way that suggests it's only a matter of time until their football program improves.

My order of adds is still Frostburg, then Fairmont, then West Liberty. Frostburg is (for now) the only one that has either Women's Lacrosse or Field Hockey, which are the only two sports where the PSAC is a consistent player on the national stage. Fairmont has more of a track record than WL in terms of football success, and they're solid in most other sports (including men's basketball).

Practically, it would be best for the conference if Mansfield dropped D2 sports and Clarion dropped football altogether, rather than adding a potential question mark. But, much more challenging politically.

What's oh-so-ironic is the Clarion campus has never, ever been nicer than it is right now.

Tippin Gymnasium is now one of the nicest basketball venues in the entire PSAC (I'd rank it Top 3).

They are also just finishing up a new turf (whatever they call it now) installation at the football stadium. It looks fantastic. They also included the area's behind the endzones so you don't see that orange track material. So, the aerial shots look really nice.

[iupgroundhog]

What's oh-so-ironic is the Clarion campus has never, ever been nicer than it is right now.

Tippin Gymnasium is now one of the nicest basketball venues in the entire PSAC (I'd rank it Top 3).

They are also just finishing up a new turf (whatever they call it now) installation at the football stadium. It looks fantastic. They also included the area's behind the endzones so you don't see that orange track material. So, the aerial shots look really nice.

Ironic, perhaps. Sounds more like irresponsible to me.

[EastStroud13]

What's oh-so-ironic is the Clarion campus has never, ever been nicer than it is right now.

Tippin Gymnasium is now one of the nicest basketball venues in the entire PSAC (I'd rank it Top 3).

They are also just finishing up a new turf (whatever they call it now) installation at the football stadium. It looks fantastic. They also included the area's behind the endzones so you don't see that orange track material. So, the aerial shots look really nice.

That is all good stuff to hear. I think I would rather them drop football if it means they can dedicate more resources to making basketball competitive. Not like they can't use the football stadium for other sports (also IIRC the local high school still uses it for their home games). But their basketball is tragic, and if they have a nice arena, it would be a shame if they couldn't get competitive teams to play in it.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Ironic, perhaps. Sounds more like irresponsible to me.

As I've said on the basketball site, Tippin will be the nicest YMCA in Pennsylvania within about 5 years when Clarion closes (or eliminates athletics).

It will be sad. That was once (not all that long ago) a really nice, small campus. Vibrant. It's a ghost town now. I spent a lot of time there in the 90s as a lot of my friends from high school went there. It used to be a wild little town. The enrollment was at least double then what it is today.

The younger crowd on here may not realize it but Clarion had some monster football and basketball teams in the mid- and late-90s.

There was a time when Tippin was probably the loudest gym to play inside in the entire league.

[iupgroundhog]

As I've said on the basketball site, Tippin will be the nicest YMCA in Pennsylvania within about 5 years when Clarion closes (or eliminates athletics).

It will be sad. That was once (not all that long ago) a really nice, small campus. Vibrant. It's a ghost town now. I spent a lot of time there in the 90s as a lot of my friends from high school went there. It used to be a wild little town. The enrollment was at least double then what it is today.

The younger crowd on here may not realize it but Clarion had some monster football and basketball teams in the mid- and late-90s.
There was a time when Tippin was probably the loudest gym to play inside in the entire league.

And then there is Wrestling. In the Golden Age of Clarion Wrestling, between '72 and '73 Clarion crowned 5 individual NCAA D1 individual champions out of 20 (10 weights X 2 years). I believe in '73 they came in 3rd in D1, overall. However, because the NCAA had just split into 3 divisions and the PSAC schools were in D2 at the time Clarion didn't count in the team standings.

I believe Lock Haven, Bloom, and Edinboro have all finished 5th at the D1 championships but those 2 years at Clarion are legendary.

[Fightingscot82]

What's oh-so-ironic is the Clarion campus has never, ever been nicer than it is right now.

Tippin Gymnasium is now one of the nicest basketball venues in the entire PSAC (I'd rank it Top 3).

They are also just finishing up a new turf (whatever they call it now) installation at the football stadium. It looks fantastic. They also included the area's behind the endzones so you don't see that orange track material. So, the aerial shots look really nice.

EDIT: Found it on their Twitter. Looks great. Just not as fun as Boro's

[IUPNation]

What's oh-so-ironic is the Clarion campus has never, ever been nicer than it is right now.

Tippin Gymnasium is now one of the nicest basketball venues in the entire PSAC (I'd rank it Top 3).

They are also just finishing up a new turf (whatever they call it now) installation at the football stadium. It looks fantastic. They also included the area's behind the endzones so you don't see that orange track material. So, the aerial shots look really nice.

Money that should have been spent on IUP…..