"HURST OUT OF PSAC?

[IUPNation]

Next. Murray said it wouldn't be this year. He wasn't looking to pull a Mercyhurst and screw people over. Opening night is like 40-some days away. I think we all know who it will be (Frostburg State) ... but, we'll see.

Since Frostburg joined this year as an associate member for field hockey it’s pretty much a done deal they make the full move. The Stewies were initially an associate member before the old WVIAC imploded and moved over as a full member when it did choosing not to go into the MEC. Frostburg knows too many WV based schools in the MEC are on life support. I bet we hear a move by them by the end of the fall. .

[jrshooter]

Mercyhurst's next-to-last game in 2024 is against Lincoln University. Not the one you're thinking of.

This one is in Oakland, California, and the program sounds a lot like college football's version of Bishop Sycamore. They practice on another school's soccer field, littered with goose feces.

It does not belong to an NCAA or NAIA division. It belongs to NO division. But it is considered a "countable opponent" by the NCAA.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...s/72320308007/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/02/02/how-football-teams-use-countable-opponent-status-to-get-fcs-games/72345005007/

The 'Hurst had to have known all this before scheduling them. A four-part USA TODAY series ran in February.

If this is what "moving up" from the PSAC gets you, well ...

[TheBigCat2192]

Mercyhurst's next-to-last game in 2024 is against Lincoln University. Not the one you're thinking of.

This one is in Oakland, California, and the program sounds a lot like college football's version of Bishop Sycamore. They practice on another school's soccer field, littered with goose feces.

It does not belong to an NCAA or NAIA division. It belongs to NO division. But it is considered a "countable opponent" by the NCAA.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...s/72320308007/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2024/02/02/how-football-teams-use-countable-opponent-status-to-get-fcs-games/72345005007/

The 'Hurst had to have known all this before scheduling them. A four-part USA TODAY series ran in February.

If this is what "moving up" from the PSAC gets you, well ...

Hurst seems to have put together a schedule designed solely to keep them afloat in terms of countable opponents until they can be full NEC members and start playing up against FBS teams in bodybag games.

[shipfbfan1]

Lincoln University plays 1 home game this season and the rest are money games against FCS programs as well as some D2 programs who are paying their travel expenses as there aren't many programs out west in D2. Lincoln has aspirations of becoming an D2 program in the near future. Gary Payton actually coached their mens basketball program before being ousted in April after he made disparaging remarks about administration and poor financial decisions made regarding athletics.

Gary Payton, retired NBA star, out as coach at Lincoln University (usatoday.com)

[Fightingscot82]

Lincoln University plays 1 home game this season and the rest are money games against FCS programs as well as some D2 programs who are paying their travel expenses as there aren't many programs out west in D2. Lincoln has aspirations of becoming an D2 program in the near future. Gary Payton actually coached their mens basketball program before being ousted in April after he made disparaging remarks about administration and poor financial decisions made regarding athletics.

Gary Payton, retired NBA star, out as coach at Lincoln University (usatoday.com)

Gary Payton getting in his own way? Gee, couldn't have predicted that one LOL

[Finchwidget]

Lincoln University plays 1 home game this season and the rest are money games against FCS programs as well as some D2 programs who are paying their travel expenses as there aren't many programs out west in D2. Lincoln has aspirations of becoming an D2 program in the near future. Gary Payton actually coached their mens basketball program before being ousted in April after he made disparaging remarks about administration and poor financial decisions made regarding athletics.

Gary Payton, retired NBA star, out as coach at Lincoln University (usatoday.com)

Where did you see that they're playing a home game? To my knowledge, they've always been exclusively a road team; I don't think they even have their own stadium. In fact, that's probably a big part of why Mercyhurst is playing them. Prior to this, they only had 3 home games, so I wouldn't be surprised if they sought out the Oaklanders just to get another game in Erie

[IUPNation]

I think it’s time we stop giving a damn about a mediocre Catholic school in Erie that will most likely close down the road. Frostburg will be an upgrade just like Shepherd was an upgrade when they took Cheyney’s spot. Frostburg is literally a Pee Sack school, except it is in the Maryland system. It started as a Normal school. It’s literally a slam dunk addition.. once they are in the Pee Sack nobody will even remember the Lake Show exists.

[shipfbfan1]

Where did you see that they're playing a home game? To my knowledge, they've always been exclusively a road team; I don't think they even have their own stadium. In fact, that's probably a big part of why Mercyhurst is playing them. Prior to this, they only had 3 home games, so I wouldn't be surprised if they sought out the Oaklanders just to get another game in Erie

You're right I was thinking of another fake program Virginia Lynchburg who plays 1 game at home and the rest they sell to the highest FCS/D2 programs to finance their program. They sell recruits on playing high level competition without telling them housing options are terrible, no appropriate weight room and traveling food is scarce lol.

[Fightingscot82]

Frostburg has a $7.7M deficit for this present fiscal year. Their plan mentions that they're cutting athletic scholarship allocations by $885k. I'm not sure where that money is coming from - budgeted discounts like private schools or unallocated donations they gave to athletics and are now diverting to other needs.

This may be why there hasn't been anything official said about potentially joining the PSAC.

https://www.frostburg.edu/news/2024/...o-students.php

[TheBigCat2192]

Frostburg has a $7.7M deficit for this present fiscal year. Their plan mentions that they're cutting athletic scholarship allocations by $885k. I'm not sure where that money is coming from - budgeted discounts like private schools or unallocated donations they gave to athletics and are now diverting to other needs.

This may be why there hasn't been anything official said about potentially joining the PSAC.

https://www.frostburg.edu/news/2024/...o-students.php

This is roughly the third time in the last month I’ve seen either a press release or higher ed news piece complaining about the FAFSA rollout. What happens to all of these little schools if (God forbid) the government ever had to implement Eurozone crisis style austerity cuts? How many of them are subsisting entirely on the educational equivalent of waiting for your tax refund check?

[iupgroundhog]

This is roughly the third time in the last month I’ve seen either a press release or higher ed news piece complaining about the FAFSA rollout. What happens to all of these little schools if (God forbid) the government ever had to implement Eurozone crisis style austerity cuts? How many of them are subsisting entirely on the educational equivalent of waiting for your tax refund check?

I don't know what the point is that you are making. However, this brief read made me think. What can be done for regional state schools nationwide like Frostburg, IUP, Bloomsburg (CU). WV schools, etc?

Rather than going with the ugly, inefficient process of downsizing and wrangling with faculty unions year after year, not to mention physical facilities issues, there should be a coordinated federal initiative to deal with these problems that are a plague in so many states.

For example, when private industries are decimated e.g. steel, coal, etc., there are federally-funded programs (perhaps administered by states) to retrain, relocate, and place workers into a different vocational situation. Since university faculty losing their jobs is such a major roadblock for schools, why not create a national program to address the structural changes in higher education and assist college faculty to move on, augment and apply their skill set in another way?

Right now, you've got 100's of institutions trying to deal with the same issues in their own way. Maybe this problem should be coordinated to a greater extent at the federal level.

[Fightingscot82]

This is roughly the third time in the last month I’ve seen either a press release or higher ed news piece complaining about the FAFSA rollout. What happens to all of these little schools if (God forbid) the government ever had to implement Eurozone crisis style austerity cuts? How many of them are subsisting entirely on the educational equivalent of waiting for your tax refund check?

Well, about 75% of college students rely on FAFSA-related financial aid to pay for their college education. At most D2 schools, probably even higher because they're much more likely to enroll students from the bottom tax brackets. What's happened with the fiasco is that some students whose government aid maybe pays the entirety of their bill are reconsidering their situation because they can't be responsible for covering the balance until the grants & loans come in. Some people don't like it, but its the same as health care. Without government financial aid or employer provided health insurance, most people wouldn't be able to afford what they want. Sure, prices would likely be lower, but it would also lessen the competition and drive greater disparity in pricing. Only a handful of colleges refuse government financial aid but its for political reasons, not ethics. If we eliminated our model of health insurance, healthcare would also go belly up and we'd see greater disparity in pricing just like colleges would. You'd be back to the 1800s: wealthy private schools catering to the rich and schools trying to cater to the rest.

Yeah the money trail is federal government to the schools, but it follows the student. If I transfer from IUP to Gannon, my federal aid starts being sent to Gannon.

[TheBigCat2192]

I don't know what the point is that you are making. However, this brief read made me think. What can be done for regional state schools nationwide like Frostburg, IUP, Bloomsburg (CU). WV schools, etc?

My point is actually quite simple. Schools have been telling us that they’re having trouble staying afloat with delayed FAFSA disbursements. Obviously the money goes to the student first and then the student pays for the school but it’s eventually ending up at College U. So how many small schools would have to close if there’s another disbursement delay due to technical issues, let alone an actual cut? And how many of them wouldn’t be there without it? Before anyone misunderstands this is not advocacy for cutting FAFSA. That’s the kind of thing likely to get a thread destroyed and I do my best to keep things football related. It only came to mind because of the press release from Frostburg specifically mentioning it. Just a thought experiment about the risks.

[TheBigCat2192]

Well, about 75% of college students rely on FAFSA-related financial aid to pay for their college education. At most D2 schools, probably even higher because they're much more likely to enroll students from the bottom tax brackets. What's happened with the fiasco is that some students whose government aid maybe pays the entirety of their bill are reconsidering their situation because they can't be responsible for covering the balance until the grants & loans come in. Some people don't like it, but its the same as health care. Without government financial aid or employer provided health insurance, most people wouldn't be able to afford what they want. Sure, prices would likely be lower, but it would also lessen the competition and drive greater disparity in pricing. Only a handful of colleges refuse government financial aid but its for political reasons, not ethics. If we eliminated our model of health insurance, healthcare would also go belly up and we'd see greater disparity in pricing just like colleges would. You'd be back to the 1800s: wealthy private schools catering to the rich and schools trying to cater to the rest.

Yeah the money trail is federal government to the schools, but it follows the student. If I transfer from IUP to Gannon, my federal aid starts being sent to Gannon.

I guess the other question to ask is - who’s a realistic option to replace Mercyhurst in our geographic footprint that isn’t facing sone sort of financial problem? Given the archetype of our members I have to imagine the pool is pretty small. I haven’t been beating the drum for trying to poach Frostburg but if they’re the best the conference can get athletically it might still be worth inviting them financial issues or not.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I guess the other question to ask is - who’s a realistic option to replace Mercyhurst in our geographic footprint that isn’t facing sone sort of financial problem? Given the archetype of our members I have to imagine the pool is pretty small. I haven’t been beating the drum for trying to poach Frostburg but if they’re the best the conference can get athletically it might still be worth inviting them financial issues or not.

I'd much prefer West Liberty or Fairmont State. Both their geography is adequate to the West.