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  • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post


    Classify under the 'message board babbling' category, but ... what if we haven't heard about any additions because there won't be any additions? What if there will be addition by subtraction and another team folds (thus balancing the ledger, per se).

    If I've learned one thing following this league for decades ... it's that nothing should ever surprise you. Who actually believed Mercyhurst would give a no-notice 'F You' to the league and bail in April?

    We have a lot of schools hanging on for dear life. We have two institutions that each feature three varsity football teams. I'm just waiting for the day to log in here and see so-and-so has announced they are dropping football. Uncle Sam's PA posse isn't going to close a campus down. Hell, Cheyney and Mansfield are still open. But, I could see one of our schools dumping football.
    I don't trust anyone to understand the financial value of football. The simple 100 students only there to play football minus operating expenses is almost always a significant net positive. That's considering the secondary benefits for other students (game ops jobs & work experience, high impact involvement experiences for cheer & band) and outside campus (community engagement, alumni & sponsor revenue), etc. Athletes are unique because they have a built in support system on day one - and the structure is much better than others, so athletes end up earning better grades and stick around and graduate more than others. Our schools lose 30% of every freshman class before the start of the sophomore year and about 40-50% before they can graduate in 6 years. When you keep students instead of them leaving for whatever reason, that's revenue, baby. Those 90 students aren't otherwise coming to Clarion because they like the campus without that football.

    So cut football at any of the 14 campuses and you lose 80-90 students and their tuition dollars. You'll keep those too close to graduation or the handful who are there because mom works there or they're a townie. With the exception of probably Slippery Rock and West Chester, every one of our schools could really use a way to guarantee 90 students - especially male students or those more likely to stick around.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

      I don't trust anyone to understand the financial value of football. The simple 100 students only there to play football minus operating expenses is almost always a significant net positive. That's considering the secondary benefits for other students (game ops jobs & work experience, high impact involvement experiences for cheer & band) and outside campus (community engagement, alumni & sponsor revenue), etc. Athletes are unique because they have a built in support system on day one - and the structure is much better than others, so athletes end up earning better grades and stick around and graduate more than others. Our schools lose 30% of every freshman class before the start of the sophomore year and about 40-50% before they can graduate in 6 years. When you keep students instead of them leaving for whatever reason, that's revenue, baby. Those 90 students aren't otherwise coming to Clarion because they like the campus without that football.
      I fully understand the value of it. As you eluded ... I just wonder if everybody does.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ctrabs74 View Post

        From my recollection, the student body at Shippensburg tends to lean more towards the Philly side than the Pittsburgh side, but I seem to recall a fair number of students from Metro DC as well.
        It definitely leaned toward Phillly in the dark ages when I attended, and I believe it still does. The biggest difference is that you have hundreds of minority students, when the campuses in the '60s, outside of Cheyney, were mostly lily white. I could be wrong, but I don't think students from the D.C. area have ever been a significant presence at Ship.

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        • Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

          It definitely leaned toward Phillly in the dark ages when I attended, and I believe it still does. The biggest difference is that you have hundreds of minority students, when the campuses in the '60s, outside of Cheyney, were mostly lily white. I could be wrong, but I don't think students from the D.C. area have ever been a significant presence at Ship.
          No. DC isn't in their top 5 out of state designations. They have 240 students from Maryland but actually have more from New Jersey (75) than Virginia (45). DC is weird because its either high income and looking away from state schools like Ship or they're very much working class and probably looking at closer state schools (Towson) or HBCUs like Bowie.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ctrabs74 View Post

            Well, if Point Park can somehow work their way into D2 despite not having any on-campus "home" facilities other than their on-campus gym used by the volleyball team, then there's at least there's a precedent for D2 membership despite no on-campus athletic venues. Point Park Basketball plays at CCAC in the North Side, soccer plays at Highmark Stadium on the South Side/Station Square, baseball has their "home" field in Green Tree and softball's home games are played in Kennedy Township. That said, I don't see how Lackawanna could even become an NAIA school, let alone a D2 school, given that most of their student body is based at Pierce's campus in Philadelphia, from what I can gather.
            The only addition Lackawanna would give to the PSAC is a footprint in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre market, and this isnt D1 where markets are important.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post


              Classify under the 'message board babbling' category, but ... what if we haven't heard about any additions because there won't be any additions? What if there will be addition by subtraction and another team folds (thus balancing the ledger, per se).

              If I've learned one thing following this league for decades ... it's that nothing should ever surprise you. Who actually believed Mercyhurst would give a no-notice 'F You' to the league and bail in April?

              We have a lot of schools hanging on for dear life. We have two institutions that each feature three varsity football teams. I'm just waiting for the day to log in here and see so-and-so has announced they are dropping football. Uncle Sam's PA posse isn't going to close a campus down. Hell, Cheyney and Mansfield are still open. But, I could see one of our schools dumping football.
              I'm going to come back to a question I asked before. What happens if there is no addition for 2025? I guess the West teams just schedule a new team in Mercyhurst's slot.

              Are the 2025 schedules out yet? Finalized might be a better word. Would another OOC game benefit IUP and the other West teams? Could it benefit the league?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                I'm going to come back to a question I asked before. What happens if there is no addition for 2025? I guess the West teams just schedule a new team in Mercyhurst's slot.

                Are the 2025 schedules out yet? Finalized might be a better word. Would another OOC game benefit IUP and the other West teams? Could it benefit the league?


                Tort was asked about this on his final show of the season. He said they'd entertain adding a game if that is the case, but I got the impression he wasn't really interested.

                IUP opens with (3) straight home games next season so he said they would consider a road trip (within reason).

                Ashland is going to be strong next year. I'd love to see IUP play a tune-up game before the home opener.

                That said, IUP is also going to be strong. I don't know how many invites Tort is going to get in the mail.


                Comment


                • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post


                  Classify under the 'message board babbling' category, but ... what if we haven't heard about any additions because there won't be any additions? What if there will be addition by subtraction and another team folds (thus balancing the ledger, per se).

                  If I've learned one thing following this league for decades ... it's that nothing should ever surprise you. Who actually believed Mercyhurst would give a no-notice 'F You' to the league and bail in April?

                  We have a lot of schools hanging on for dear life. We have two institutions that each feature three varsity football teams. I'm just waiting for the day to log in here and see so-and-so has announced they are dropping football. Uncle Sam's PA posse isn't going to close a campus down. Hell, Cheyney and Mansfield are still open. But, I could see one of our schools dumping football.
                  Wouldn't it kind of make some sense for Gannon to join the GMAC? Or Seton Hill even? Most of those schools seem to be private (GMAC) and I'd think that would align better for those 2 in particular.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ram040506 View Post

                    Wouldn't it kind of make some sense for Gannon to join the GMAC? Or Seton Hill even? Most of those schools seem to be private (GMAC) and I'd think that would align better for those 2 in particular.
                    But the travel schedule would bring back memories for Gannon of the long road trips when they were a member of the GLAC. Would be surprised if Gannon has any interest in that type of change. Plus, Gannon would have to give up all the natural rivalries available thru the PSAC West.

                    Comment


                    • 2025 and 2026 schedules are online and updated with Bye weeks where Mercyhurst would have been. Obviously things can be adjusted as needed, but the easy path would be adding a West team and inserting them into the void left by Mercyhurst.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
                        2025 and 2026 schedules are online and updated with Bye weeks where Mercyhurst would have been. Obviously things can be adjusted as needed, but the easy path would be adding a West team and inserting them into the void left by Mercyhurst.
                        Adding a West team? What do you mean. Everybody in the West already schedules everybody else in the West.

                        The obvious difficulty is a team has to find another team during the specific week they were scheduled to play Hurst. That is not that easy to do.

                        As it stands now, if the more competitive programs leave it as a bye week they can hurt their post-season playoff hopes. There are other ways to look at it where it could give PSAC-West teams an unfair advantage come post-season. My thinking is that the imbalanced divisions issue has to be resolved.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                          Adding a West team? What do you mean. Everybody in the West already schedules everybody else in the West.

                          The obvious difficulty is a team has to find another team during the specific week they were scheduled to play Hurst. That is not that easy to do.

                          As it stands now, if the more competitive programs leave it as a bye week they can hurt their post-season playoff hopes. There are other ways to look at it where it could give PSAC-West teams an unfair advantage come post-season. My thinking is that the imbalanced divisions issue has to be resolved.


                          Remember, they can play Week 0 (or whatever it's called).

                          The week last year before IUP played at Ashland ... they could have scheduled a game that weekend.

                          But, yes, filling it during the Mercyhurst hole is about impossible.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

                            There's several potential schools in the PAC.

                            Westminster was the last one to try (from memory). I think they played in the GLIAC for a year or so.

                            I'm probably remembering all that incorrectly but they did come up for a brief period.

                            Who knows where this is going at this point.
                            Massey’s “All Seasons” page for Westminster says they spent two years in the Midwestern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference which then merged with another league to form the GLIAC. They didn’t do very well and dropped to D3 before the merger. So they have tried before.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                              I'm going to come back to a question I asked before. What happens if there is no addition for 2025? I guess the West teams just schedule a new team in Mercyhurst's slot.

                              Are the 2025 schedules out yet? Finalized might be a better word. Would another OOC game benefit IUP and the other West teams? Could it benefit the league?
                              Don’t forget three East schools don’t have a third crossover.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ram040506 View Post

                                Wouldn't it kind of make some sense for Gannon to join the GMAC? Or Seton Hill even? Most of those schools seem to be private (GMAC) and I'd think that would align better for those 2 in particular.
                                Probably not now that the GMAC is Region 3 in football which means they will be going far for any playoffs. I’m sure the GMAC was already clumped with Midwestern leagues for other sports playoffs.

                                Comment

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