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Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

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  • Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

    I always thought schools went D1 because they got a piece of the pie for making the MBB tournament. I mentioned "iteration" of the Summit because the league existed before the Dakota schools were admitted.

    Even still, NDSU and SDSU are two very attention hungry programs. They don't want anyone getting that coveted auto-bid spot. I was honestly surprised to see ORU get a couple nods post Dakota invasion of the Summit when I looked at the championship history.

    Kinda wish the MBB tournament would get rid of autobids for the lesser throwaway conferences to be honest, but that's a rant for another day.
    Most conferences pay out evenly when you become a full member. Some, allow the individual school to garner more of a cut from that tournaments pot.

    The Tournament as of 2022 paid teams $2 million per game played, this is to be paid out over 6 years. Most conferences have a pay-share clause that means the conference gets the winnings and doles out the cash evenly.

    The Summit has 8 Full D1 members right now qualified for the payment so $2mil / 8 teams evenly split = $333,333 each of the Summit teams are getting per year on average from the Madness.

    Oral Roberts garnered the Summit some extra money as well because of their Sweet Sixteen run a few years back. They earned the Summit an additional $4 million for their 2 added games played.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by debergfan View Post
      Jamestown's men's volleyball roster will get smaller since they play up at "d1" level, maximum of 18 on the roster, 30 listed on the web site. Still no men's soccer schedule on the web site.

      Popcorn ready.
      Back to the original point of this thread, I think something that will be interesting to monitor is how any specific sport offerings will affect their Title IX standing. There is a lot of talk about sport cuts and what not, but part of the discussion is also about scholarship dollars. I wonder if cutting men's volleyball, for example could free up space for another sport to become more competitive.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by zimmy21 View Post

        Most conferences pay out evenly when you become a full member. Some, allow the individual school to garner more of a cut from that tournaments pot.

        The Tournament as of 2022 paid teams $2 million per game played, this is to be paid out over 6 years. Most conferences have a pay-share clause that means the conference gets the winnings and doles out the cash evenly.

        The Summit has 8 Full D1 members right now qualified for the payment so $2mil / 8 teams evenly split = $333,333 each of the Summit teams are getting per year on average from the Madness.

        Oral Roberts garnered the Summit some extra money as well because of their Sweet Sixteen run a few years back. They earned the Summit an additional $4 million for their 2 added games played.
        Thanks for the specifics. I was not aware of the pay structure. I just assumed the team that went got the nod - which is how I'd prefer it to work, but I digress.

        I can't speak on every Summit program, and all sarcasm aside - but SDSU loves attention (and it's apparent NDSU does too). I've really never seen anything like it. I'm not saying they're wrong for it - but it's my actual belief that they won't want anyone that can steal their thunder. I also believe it's partly responsible for why Augie wasn't allowed in.

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        • Originally posted by MrMustang View Post

          well The Summit might change their mind when SDSU & NDSU go to the Big Sky and when Oral Roberts goes to Conference USA or something similar in the south

          I'm not an FCS expert but SDSU/NDSU to the Big Sky isn't a real consideration, is it? Unless they're moving it to FBS, for which the fans of the Montana schools swear there's no interest.

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          • Originally posted by D2Rover View Post


            I'm not an FCS expert but SDSU/NDSU to the Big Sky isn't a real consideration, is it? Unless they're moving it to FBS, for which the fans of the Montana schools swear there's no interest.
            No the xDSU's aren't leaving for the Big Sky. Mountain West at best, but that won't be until the P4 split
            ​​​​​

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            • Originally posted by zimmy21 View Post

              No the xDSU's aren't leaving for the Big Sky. Mountain West at best, but that won't be until the P4 split
              ​​​​​
              This is kind of where I'm at....

              At some point, I think the Mountain West as-is will divide, and that might be part of one of the next big shakeups. I could see a league with a few Mountain West schools (Wyo, CSU, AFA), a few Big Sky schools (Montana, Montana State, Idaho), Dakota schools, etc. That feels both reasonable and realistic, and I could potentially see further NSIC movement as a domino to follow that shift.

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              • Originally posted by MrMustang View Post

                There are many Mankato supporters on this Board pushing D1 and even more Mankato supporters who are vocal they don't belong with Crookston, Jamestown, Minto and Mary etc. I'm not out of bounds here
                Not out of bounds, just misrepresenting. There are a few supporters on here who want D1. There are more that don’t.

                Most of the NSIC should feel they don’t belong with Crookston and the like, frankly. Crookston isn’t a D2 school/program by any stretch, except for affiliation.

                SMSU supporters on the board want to be with smaller, more ‘like-minded’ schools. And you all have gone on and on about lack of scholarship money and COVID losses. Maybe SMSU should move to D3? Makes more sense than MSU moving up :)

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                • Originally posted by zimmy21 View Post

                  No the xDSU's aren't leaving for the Big Sky. Mountain West at best, but that won't be until the P4 split
                  ​​​​​
                  Yeah, I also don’t see that happening soon. When they basically own the Summit (and not just competitively) why leave for another FCS conference that’s nearly as obscure?

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                  • Originally posted by Purple Mav Man View Post

                    Not out of bounds, just misrepresenting. There are a few supporters on here who want D1. There are more that don’t.

                    Most of the NSIC should feel they don’t belong with Crookston and the like, frankly. Crookston isn’t a D2 school/program by any stretch, except for affiliation.

                    SMSU supporters on the board want to be with smaller, more ‘like-minded’ schools. And you all have gone on and on about lack of scholarship money and COVID losses. Maybe SMSU should move to D3? Makes more sense than MSU moving up :)
                    The more realignment occurs, the more the NSIC and Division II as a whole will essentially become Division III. I think we are getting to a point with all of the money flying around that this will extend beyond football. This is the point a lot of people have been trying to make, including myself.

                    Ultimately, each institution decides what level they want to be at. UMC obviously wants to stay in the NSIC, since they have declined opportunities to move elsewhere in the past. Jamestown also has decided that this is the level they choose to be at. That is their prerogative, no matter what some internet posters think. If other programs choose to move elsewhere as a result, as Upper Iowa has already chosen to do, that is also their prerogative.

                    I think it's funny that you criticize SMSU fans for a desire to be with 'like-minded' schools when that's exactly the reason why you are attempting to ostracize Jamestown and Crookston. Since they aren't located in a convenient location for you and don't have the financial resources of a billionaire alum to give them fancy facilities, they don't belong in your version of Division II. I hate to break it to you, but this isn't the NCC. NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND, Northern Colorado, Omaha, all left you four schools behind. Mankato chose to join the Northern Sun, knowing it was already a group of 'like-minded' schools. The NCC Four came in as the outsiders, not the other way around. The NSIC might not be as financially wealthy as the NCC was, but it is still a very good Division II conference. Why shouldn't we continue to add like-minded institutions?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post

                      This is kind of where I'm at....

                      At some point, I think the Mountain West as-is will divide, and that might be part of one of the next big shakeups. I could see a league with a few Mountain West schools (Wyo, CSU, AFA), a few Big Sky schools (Montana, Montana State, Idaho), Dakota schools, etc. That feels both reasonable and realistic, and I could potentially see further NSIC movement as a domino to follow that shift.

                      This is the one way that the Big 4 FCS programs go FBS or end up together, but I think it's very unlikely. San Diego State is the only MW school that is really interested in leaving others behind, I think everyone else would rather stick together than be dealing with schools like Memphis and Tulane. Initially it looked like a possible way to keep the Pac-# alive and seemed possible, but it looks like the Mountain West isn't interested in breaking up just to be able to be in a conference with Wazzu and Oregon St.

                      If the P4 split means the creation of a G5 playoff, maybe the interest in moving up the top half of the Big Sky along with xDSUs grows.

                      In the unlikely scenario any of that does happen, it probably creates much better conditions for NSIC teams looking to move up.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Purple Mav Man View Post

                        Not out of bounds, just misrepresenting. There are a few supporters on here who want D1. There are more that don’t.

                        Most of the NSIC should feel they don’t belong with Crookston and the like, frankly. Crookston isn’t a D2 school/program by any stretch, except for affiliation.

                        SMSU supporters on the board want to be with smaller, more ‘like-minded’ schools. And you all have gone on and on about lack of scholarship money and COVID losses. Maybe SMSU should move to D3? Makes more sense than MSU moving up :)
                        I know you're not responding to anything I said directly - but I do want SMSU to be with "like-minded" schools. I just have a different definition - MnSCU.

                        The NSIC has three founding and continuous members in Winona, Bemidji, and Moorhead. SMSU was added in the 1960's and has been continuous. Meaning that 70% of MnSCU universities (with sports) have essentially played only each other, at least since 1932.

                        Academically speaking, all MnSCU institutions serve a similar purpose. Most of them were founded around the same time as Normal schools. There is also no designated flagship, meaning the schools are technically on equal standing with one another. I know in practice they aren't but...

                        I've completely soured on St. Cloud and their ability to run an institution of higher education - so they are my outlier. I also know my definition of "like-minded" may pose a question as to what to do with the rest of the NSIC - but I want to be with our peer institutions. Jamestown is a private college in North Dakota - they don't fit my bill in that regard.

                        I'm not saying you hold this opinion - but I've talked to some MSU people who really see themselves as above the rest of the pack and would scoff at the idea of being on the same platform - despite the fact the only difference between Mankato and Bemidji is the age and size. Otherwise it's almost identical, and until MSU becomes an R2 flagship with SDSU money and U of M academics, that's where they will be. And it's not a bad place to be.
                        Last edited by SW_Mustang; 08-01-2024, 11:35 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by D2Rover View Post


                          This is the one way that the Big 4 FCS programs go FBS or end up together, but I think it's very unlikely. San Diego State is the only MW school that is really interested in leaving others behind, I think everyone else would rather stick together than be dealing with schools like Memphis and Tulane. Initially it looked like a possible way to keep the Pac-# alive and seemed possible, but it looks like the Mountain West isn't interested in breaking up just to be able to be in a conference with Wazzu and Oregon St.

                          If the P4 split means the creation of a G5 playoff, maybe the interest in moving up the top half of the Big Sky along with xDSUs grows.

                          In the unlikely scenario any of that does happen, it probably creates much better conditions for NSIC teams looking to move up.
                          We'll see, I think it makes a lot of sense. And while you say the MW isn't interested in Wazzu and OSU, they did enter a scheduling agreement. Wazzu has 8 games in total against MWC schools this year and Oregon State has 7. Maybe they decide they like the fit in the end.

                          I could see a MWC split largely along the former division lines. Essentially, the Pac-2 would get the six West schools, and probably Boise State. The Mountain schools would then be part of this new league with the Dakotas and Montanas. Any interested NSICs could then fill in necessary gaps leftover.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by D2Rover View Post


                            This is the one way that the Big 4 FCS programs go FBS or end up together, but I think it's very unlikely. San Diego State is the only MW school that is really interested in leaving others behind, I think everyone else would rather stick together than be dealing with schools like Memphis and Tulane. Initially it looked like a possible way to keep the Pac-# alive and seemed possible, but it looks like the Mountain West isn't interested in breaking up just to be able to be in a conference with Wazzu and Oregon St.

                            If the P4 split means the creation of a G5 playoff, maybe the interest in moving up the top half of the Big Sky along with xDSUs grows.

                            In the unlikely scenario any of that does happen, it probably creates much better conditions for NSIC teams looking to move up.
                            SDSU (CA) seems to be a real wild card in all of this. They're a non-P4 school that kind of operates as one. I have no idea what they are going to do, but I will be curious to see how their situation plays out - maybe over everybody else.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post
                              We'll see, I think it makes a lot of sense. And while you say the MW isn't interested in Wazzu and OSU, they did enter a scheduling agreement. Wazzu has 8 games in total against MWC schools this year and Oregon State has 7. Maybe they decide they like the fit in the end.

                              I could see a MWC split largely along the former division lines. Essentially, the Pac-2 would get the six West schools, and probably Boise State. The Mountain schools would then be part of this new league with the Dakotas and Montanas. Any interested NSICs could then fill in necessary gaps leftover.
                              To clarify my point there, the MW is definitely interested in WSU/OSU, but I don't think they're in a position that they are going to make big sacrifices just to be associated with them. If those two want to just join the conference, everyone is happy with that.

                              Wyo, Utah St, SJSU, and Reno are the ones at big risk of getting left behind if anything does happen (Hawaii may be done at that point, or go Independent). The Montana schools are the obvious first teams to call, then probably the two Dakota State schools. Davis and Idaho are next, but I'm starting to get off topic at that point.
                              Last edited by D2Rover; 08-01-2024, 02:00 PM.

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