West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Layton]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

He's solid. Good defender. Offense TBA.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

He's solid. Good defender. Offense TBA.

Saw that dude from SH only made 10 3's last year...seems like a driver / slasher... Long though at 6'4".

Unless yahel hill is going Power 5 conference, i wouldn't leave for d1....but someone is probably in his ear...

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Saw that dude from SH only made 10 3's last year...seems like a driver / slasher... Long though at 6'4".

Unless yahel hill is going Power 5 conference, i wouldn't leave for d1....but someone is probably in his ear...

I wouldn't have pegged him for a typical WL player. But, perhaps Ben is trying to mix things up a bit. He has shutdown defender capability in his future, but, yes, he's more driver/slasher.

Keep in mind he played on a team with two go-to scorers last year. The 6'4" is also a stretch ... no pun intended. I'd say 6'1" ... 6'2" max.

[Scrub]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Perhaps I'm romanticizing "The Crutch Era" (as we've been prone to do), but it seems like these mass exodus transfer moments (that are, frankly, typical of D2 ball) didn't necessarily happen to WLU under Crutch. Yes, he lost a few key guys over the years--Dyer, Nick Brown, Marco Colombo, etc.--but it seemed like he had a lot more situations where guys stuck with the system and rode out the early lean years in order to play significant roles later (a story that fits the likes of Meininger, Primmer, French, Keene Cockburn, etc.). It seems like Ben is leaking guys at a greater rate than Crutch did. Which of these would we attribute this seeming trend to:

1. Over romanticizing on my part (i.e., Crutch lost just as many key contributors and I'm only selectively remembering)?
2. Howlett having an inability to keep them happy or earn as much buy-in?
3. Howlett actually being a better recruiter than Crutch and getting better overall recruits who often seek what they perceive to be greener pastures?
4. The nature of today's athlete being different than it was 10 years ago?

I don't necessarily know the answer. And I admit that I liked the thought (if it's true) and was proud of the fact that WLU was somehow immune to all the player movement because they were so good at recruiting the system and getting buy-in. Plus, it was great to lean the players and know they were going to be around for 4-5 years rather than having to relearn the roster every season like a Slippery Rock fan. Anyone have thoughts on this seeming shift in the trend at WLU?

Oh, and while you're at it, get off my lawn! ; )

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Perhaps I'm romanticizing "The Crutch Era" (as we've been prone to do), but it seems like these mass exodus transfer moments (that are, frankly, typical of D2 ball) didn't necessarily happen to WLU under Crutch. Yes, he lost a few key guys over the years--Dyer, Nick Brown, Marco Colombo, etc.--but it seemed like he had a lot more situations where guys stuck with the system and rode out the early lean years in order to play significant roles later (a story that fits the likes of Meininger, Primmer, French, Keene Cockburn, etc.). It seems like Ben is leaking guys at a greater rate than Crutch did. Which of these would we attribute this seeming trend to:

1. Over romanticizing on my part (i.e., Crutch lost just as many key contributors and I'm only selectively remembering)?
2. Howlett having an inability to keep them happy or earn as much buy-in?
3. Howlett actually being a better recruiter than Crutch and getting better overall recruits who often seek what they perceive to be greener pastures?
4. The nature of today's athlete being different than it was 10 years ago?

I don't necessarily know the answer. And I admit that I liked the thought (if it's true) and was proud of the fact that WLU was somehow immune to all the player movement because they were so good at recruiting the system and getting buy-in. Plus, it was great to lean the players and know they were going to be around for 4-5 years rather than having to relearn the roster every season like a Slippery Rock fan. Anyone have thoughts on this seeming shift in the trend at WLU?

Oh, and while you're at it, get off my lawn! ; )

It's the new norm. Nothing unique. Maybe kids don't like the rotation and want to play 38 mpg. Who knows.

They all think they are the next Steph Curry coming out of high school and AAU.

Of the three you lost I'd say only one is of any significance. Malik will be a big upgrade over the other two.

The loyalty days are long gone.

Take Greely as another example. That could be the case of Ben not inviting him back. Remember these guys are on one-year deals.

Hill ... yeah ... major loss

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Perhaps I'm romanticizing "The Crutch Era" (as we've been prone to do), but it seems like these mass exodus transfer moments (that are, frankly, typical of D2 ball) didn't necessarily happen to WLU under Crutch. Yes, he lost a few key guys over the years--Dyer, Nick Brown, Marco Colombo, etc.--but it seemed like he had a lot more situations where guys stuck with the system and rode out the early lean years in order to play significant roles later (a story that fits the likes of Meininger, Primmer, French, Keene Cockburn, etc.). It seems like Ben is leaking guys at a greater rate than Crutch did. Which of these would we attribute this seeming trend to:

1. Over romanticizing on my part (i.e., Crutch lost just as many key contributors and I'm only selectively remembering)?
2. Howlett having an inability to keep them happy or earn as much buy-in?
3. Howlett actually being a better recruiter than Crutch and getting better overall recruits who often seek what they perceive to be greener pastures?
4. The nature of today's athlete being different than it was 10 years ago?

I don't necessarily know the answer. And I admit that I liked the thought (if it's true) and was proud of the fact that WLU was somehow immune to all the player movement because they were so good at recruiting the system and getting buy-in. Plus, it was great to lean the players and know they were going to be around for 4-5 years rather than having to relearn the roster every season like a Slippery Rock fan. Anyone have thoughts on this seeming shift in the trend at WLU?

Oh, and while you're at it, get off my lawn! ; )

A really good comprehensive look at reasons for the attrition....Maybe all of the above in varying degrees...Good summation..

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Saw that dude from SH only made 10 3's last year...seems like a driver / slasher... Long though at 6'4".

Unless yahel hill is going Power 5 conference, i wouldn't leave for d1....but someone is probably in his ear...

Re: Hill - If people are telling him that he has a chance to being the next Steph Curry, then they are not his friends. The odds of anyone less than 6-3 getting into the NBA are incredibly small, much less when they weigh 150 lbs. Just check the current rosters of NBA teams.
D1 is a sleazy operation from top to bottom that exploits players, with few exception. It is replete with leeches "advising" players, based on their own self-interest. No one is going to care in 5 years whether you played D1 or D2 in terms of career opportunities.

What most folks don't know is that at least 25% of the American players in Europe are in D2 (i looked it up).
I hope he lands at a place with good coaching and with respect for academic-athletic-social life balance.

Re: SH transfer: I like the idea of a 6-4 PG, who is a good defender and slasher. WLU had troubles defending taller, physical guards like Bolte and others. This fills a gap. Have him work out with Bolon and he will get better shooting, if from nothing but sheer effort! LOL!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

It's the new norm. Nothing unique. Maybe kids don't like the rotation and want to play 38 mpg. Who knows.

They all think they are the next Steph Curry coming out of high school and AAU.

Of the three you lost I'd say only one is of any significance. Malik will be a big upgrade over the other two.

The loyalty days are long gone.

Take Greely as another example. That could be the case of Ben not inviting him back. Remember these guys are on one-year deals.

Hill ... yeah ... major loss

I agree with you.
When Dennis was a Freshman under Crutch, rumors were rampant around Columbus that Dennis thought he was D1 material and had gotten overlooked. After his sophomore year, I heard that he pulled the trigger on leaving, thinking that D1 schools were going pick him up. It was very late (maybe August?) when Crutch picked him up. Although I have no proof, I always suspected it was a lifeline when the D1 gig did not work out.

Beau Justice left while Crutch was still there and became leading scorer at Valdosta State.

I think some guys want to be the main man, where at WLU everyone was at least a 1000 point scorer (2200 in Monteroso's case), or they have personal reasons.
As you said it is a sign of the times. In the age of tweets, texts, and 15 second sound bite solutions for incredibly complex issues, folks want instant gratification. Many young folks want to be CEO in two years; if it doesn't happen then they move on. Our education system may not have taught them critical thinking, but they did a great job on self-esteem! LOL

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Perhaps I'm romanticizing "The Crutch Era" (as we've been prone to do), but it seems like these mass exodus transfer moments (that are, frankly, typical of D2 ball) didn't necessarily happen to WLU under Crutch. Yes, he lost a few key guys over the years--Dyer, Nick Brown, Marco Colombo, etc.--but it seemed like he had a lot more situations where guys stuck with the system and rode out the early lean years in order to play significant roles later (a story that fits the likes of Meininger, Primmer, French, Keene Cockburn, etc.). It seems like Ben is leaking guys at a greater rate than Crutch did. Which of these would we attribute this seeming trend to:

1. Over romanticizing on my part (i.e., Crutch lost just as many key contributors and I'm only selectively remembering)?
2. Howlett having an inability to keep them happy or earn as much buy-in?
3. Howlett actually being a better recruiter than Crutch and getting better overall recruits who often seek what they perceive to be greener pastures?
4. The nature of today's athlete being different than it was 10 years ago?

I don't necessarily know the answer. And I admit that I liked the thought (if it's true) and was proud of the fact that WLU was somehow immune to all the player movement because they were so good at recruiting the system and getting buy-in. Plus, it was great to lean the players and know they were going to be around for 4-5 years rather than having to relearn the roster every season like a Slippery Rock fan. Anyone have thoughts on this seeming shift in the trend at WLU?

Oh, and while you're at it, get off my lawn! ; )

My thoughts. I agree with number 3 and 4.

3. I think Howlett is upgrading the sheer athletic ability of recruits each year. From example, IMHO I actually thought Hill was better than Dennis as a freshman. Few mistakes, better finisher and better shooter. I think he has an incredible eye for talent and upside potential.

4. Some guys want to be the main man, rather than contribute to the synergy of the team. With the better athletes, it appears to take more time for them to teach them that ball movement is the key to offensive synergy, not a focus on dribble drive where the ball sticks in one's hand like one is James Harden.

5. The guys he brings in are ultra competitive (it's often true of high GPA folks too). If you are not working as hard as they are, then you will appear to have regressed. The effort required at WLU is often much greater than even many D1 schoools (exception WVU practices). Given reason #3 above, those who have regressed or cannot improve are not likely to find minutes in the future. They need to know this so if they want to continue playing, then they may need to go somewhere else. It does not mean they are bad people or bad players; it is just not a fit for them at WLU. Also, it is not good if when folks get in the game, they play like its garbage time and play selfishly or half-heartedly and not WL ball. I saw instances of that behavior late in the season. Watch some of the late season ending 5 minues and you will see what I mean.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Re: Hill - If people are telling him that he has a chance to being the next Steph Curry, then they are not his friends. The odds of anyone less than 6-3 getting into the NBA are incredibly small, much less when they weigh 150 lbs. Just check the current rosters of NBA teams.
D1 is a sleazy operation from top to bottom that exploits players, with few exception. It is replete with leeches "advising" players, based on their own self-interest. No one is going to care in 5 years whether you played D1 or D2 in terms of career opportunities.

What most folks don't know is that at least 25% of the American players in Europe are in D2 (i looked it up).
I hope he lands at a place with good coaching and with respect for academic-athletic-social life balance.

Re: SH transfer: I like the idea of a 6-4 PG, who is a good defender and slasher. WLU had troubles defending taller, physical guards like Bolte and others. This fills a gap. Have him work out with Bolon and he will get better shooting, if from nothing but sheer effort! LOL!

NBA is funny. He'd have to buy a ticket.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

NBA is funny. He'd have to buy a ticket.

LOL - Good one!

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

NBA is funny. He'd have to buy a ticket.

Yep...But in the eyes of his "handlers" he is a sure thing...all he needs is exposure at a D1!!!

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Re: Hill - If people are telling him that he has a chance to being the next Steph Curry, then they are not his friends. The odds of anyone less than 6-3 getting into the NBA are incredibly small, much less when they weigh 150 lbs. Just check the current rosters of NBA teams.
D1 is a sleazy operation from top to bottom that exploits players, with few exception. It is replete with leeches "advising" players, based on their own self-interest. No one is going to care in 5 years whether you played D1 or D2 in terms of career opportunities.

What most folks don't know is that at least 25% of the American players in Europe are in D2 (i looked it up).
I hope he lands at a place with good coaching and with respect for academic-athletic-social life balance.

Re: SH transfer: I like the idea of a 6-4 PG, who is a good defender and slasher. WLU had troubles defending taller, physical guards like Bolte and others. This fills a gap. Have him work out with Bolon and he will get better shooting, if from nothing but sheer effort! LOL!

Is McKinney a "1 for 1" replacement for Hill. In some ways yes and other ways no. From looking at his HS tape and reading the "scouting" reports on him, he is certainly a gifted ball handler who can slash and distribute the ball equally well...looks like he can jump out of the gym which is a plus for a slasher. Left hander which is a bit unique. His focus has (had?) been on the defensive end of the court where his cat quick speed is impressive. He has a quick release on his jumper but he doesn't take, or make, many 3's. I wouldn't call him a 1 for 1 for Hill because of his lack of 3 point production but in every other aspect, he seems to be equal to Hill. He will need to spend many hours in the gym working on his 3 but he seems to have the stroke to get much better at it. I think 6'4" is a bit of roster padding on the part of Seton Hill but he is every bit of 6'2" which would be a step up for WLU if he plays the PG position. A starter from game one as a freshman at Seton Hill...but we're talking about Seton Hill so that doesn't carry the same weight as if he was freshman starter at WLU or IUP or... Mercyhurst!

Good addition to the team who will go as far as his dedication carries him.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Is McKinney a "1 for 1" replacement for Hill. In some ways yes and other ways no. From looking at his HS tape and reading the "scouting" reports on him, he is certainly a gifted ball handler who can slash and distribute the ball equally well...looks like he can jump out of the gym which is a plus for a slasher. Left hander which is a bit unique. His focus has (had?) been on the defensive end of the court where his cat quick speed is impressive. He has a quick release on his jumper but he doesn't take, or make, many 3's. I wouldn't call him a 1 for 1 for Hill because of his lack of 3 point production but in every other aspect, he seems to be equal to Hill. He will need to spend many hours in the gym working on his 3 but he seems to have the stroke to get much better at it. I think 6'4" is a bit of roster padding on the part of Seton Hill but he is every bit of 6'2" which would be a step up for WLU if he plays the PG position. A starter from game one as a freshman at Seton Hill...but we're talking about Seton Hill so that doesn't carry the same weight as if he was freshman starter at WLU or IUP or... Mercyhurst!

Good addition to the team who will go as far as his dedication carries him.

I'd have taken him in a second. Real good add.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I'd have taken him in a second. Real good add.

Malik fills a gap - a tall, physical quick guard defender who can score. Wl has plenty of other players who pick up the slack on threes imho.
Big + on defense.
Close to a wash on offense imho with the caveat of limited knowledge of him. Appears to be much stronger