West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Looks like Ft Wayne was his only D1 offer among several DII's in Ohio and WV. I don't blame him for taking a D1 offer...also don't blame him for realizing after two years that most of the college coaches that recruited him got it right in evaluating him as a DII player!

Also some D1 coaches recruit players that couldn't play dead in a Western. Not even close to competitive when they transfer to D2. It is really troubling, as you have stated in other threads, the exploitation of players by their AAU handler weasels to "go D1", which is really for the handler's benefit.

Kids need to look in the mirror and say "Do i have the body to play in the NBA?"

Average heights by position on 2018 NBA roster
PG - over 6'2"" and 190 lbs
SG - 6'5 204 lbs
SF - over 6'7" 219 lbs
PF - over 6'9", 232 lbs
Center 6'11 249 lbs

It is a physical, 1 on 1 game.

If not blessed with an NBA body, quickness and jumping ability, then they need to pick a school that will develop the skills to get into an overseas career, since AAU is not doing it.
l.
IMHO West Lib plays a Euro Style which is perfectly suited for the overseas game. They develop the complete player - they just don't say to the big guy - hey you just go rebound. They develop a more complete understanding of the game.

23% of players selected to play outside the NBA in 2018 were D2.

Exploitation of young impressionable players really bugs me. D1 is sleazy as evidenced by the litany of scandals at top-notch academic institututions, which is likely just the tip of the iceberg.

In 5 years, no one is going to care if you went d1 or d2, while you are stuck with a worthless major that was designed to preserve your eligibility.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Yep...D1 in basketball and football is sleazy recruting wise. I also think its sleazy when D1 coaches play their fringe players a minimum number of games their second year knowing full well that they are never going to be front line guys. Intentionally eats up a year of potential DII eligibility which increases the chances these players stay with the D1 as primary practice fodder for the REAL players. Big difference in a redshirt sophomore coming to a DII with 3 seasons of eligibility vice 4.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Ben could always look to the football team for a big man. Wake Forest's football profile states TE Thomas Cole was a two time All-Valley and McDonald's All-American basketball select coming out of Wellsburg HS. Yea, he's "only" 6'5" but he's listed at 245 pounds!! Hey, Dan Monteroso pulled the two sport star athlete thing off sooooo, maybe Cole could as well!!

I also note that incoming OL Francisco Pedrozo's profile on the Eastern Michigan football site mentions he played basketball at St Thomas Aquinas HS. At 6'7", 310 pounds he would certainly represent an immovable object in the paint!!!

Monterosa scored 2200 pts in high school where cole scored < 1200. He was best basketball player on Purdue football team according to his teammates. Might be a bigger leap.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Monterosa scored 2200 pts in high school where cole scored < 1200. He was best basketball player on Purdue football team according to his teammates. Might be a bigger leap.

I was tounge in cheek on this cat playing basketball, but for the sake of off season discussion, wouldn't be looking for him to lead the basketball team or even start. Bench guy getting about 15 minutes per game averaging 8 points, 4 offensive rebounds and a block or two.

[Dirtybird]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Yep and just being a decent size, strong, athletic, physical presence when needed. He can run, goes around 250 and is a tough kid. He could possibly be a guy that can physically hold his own against a strong guy like a Patrick Smith type from Mercyhurst and if he burns some fouls it's no biggie.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Yep and just being a decent size, strong, athletic, physical presence when needed. He can run, goes around 250 and is a tough kid. He could possibly be a guy that can physically hold his own against a strong guy like a Patrick Smith type from Mercyhurst and if he burns some fouls it's no biggie.

As we have learned, putting all your eggs in one basket, no matter how great that basket may be, can lead to problems. Not advocating that we fundamentally change our style of play, just that we need some sort of Plan B to at least fight when the cat get's into the basket and blocks the eggs before they get into the basket!!! MAN...was THAT a tortured metaphor!!

[Scrub]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

As we have learned, putting all your eggs in one basket, no matter how great that basket may be, can lead to problems. Not advocating that we fundamentally change our style of play, just that we need some sort of Plan B to at least fight when the cat get's into the basket and blocks the eggs before they get into the basket!!! MAN...was THAT a tortured metaphor!!

What you're saying makes sense theoretically, but wouldn't work in practice. Imagine that recruiting pitch: "So, you don't really fit our style, big guy. But we want to recruit you to sit on our bench and be useful in about 2-3 games when we face a dominant big. You'll be the MVP of 2 games, and sit the rest. What do you say? Sign here!"

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

What you're saying makes sense theoretically, but wouldn't work in practice. Imagine that recruiting pitch: "So, you don't really fit our style, big guy. But we want to recruit you to sit on our bench and be useful in about 2-3 games when we face a dominant big. You'll be the MVP of 2 games, and sit the rest. What do you say? Sign here!"

Very good points. Imho selling point of wlu is its euro style concepts that develop basketball iq and good decision making in rapid, dynamic situations. Need to find tall Lithuanian or Serbian euro player ( as example) who can run, pass, shoot and jump out of the gym to block shots. Not easy in d2 programs.

Folks need to look at glass as half full.
Compared to d1:
#1 scoring 100.8 points per game
#1 three point % 42.5%
#1 points per possession at 1.251
#2 steals per game 7.7
#3 effective field goal % 58.2%
#4 assists per game 17.9
#4 field goal % 49.9%

In d2 Wlu was #2 in total rebounds and #6 in offensive rebounds

For a very young team these stats are impressive and they will likely only get better.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

What you're saying makes sense theoretically, but wouldn't work in practice. Imagine that recruiting pitch: "So, you don't really fit our style, big guy. But we want to recruit you to sit on our bench and be useful in about 2-3 games when we face a dominant big. You'll be the MVP of 2 games, and sit the rest. What do you say? Sign here!"

Don't know what the real issue with Greely was, but I can certainly see it being playing time. I agree that trying to sell someone that they are only going to get in to a limited number of games would not result in many takers. No, what I'm proposing is bring in a player that has a shooting hole in his game with the pitch being, come to WLU and do what you do (play defense and rebound) and we will develop your shooting game. But that would take commitment on Ben's part to insure that this guy is getting into games on a regular basis...can't sit him for 10 games and expect him to 1. Be happy and 2. Be ready to play minutes in the games were he is truly needed.

To Columbus' desire for a big Euro, yea, I want one (or two) too!!! But it seems like recruiting overseas is a completely different animal and if a coach is not plugged into the process, it is difficult to even know were to start.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Agree that plugging into euro players is daunting. Not sure where to start either. Not cheap either. Maybe some big $ donors will recognize the value and make it possible financially.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

The Euro players don't solve your muscle issue.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

The Euro players don't solve your muscle issue.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

The Euro players don't solve your muscle issue.

Size comes in many packages and being an effective inside presence can take many forms. But I think there are some absolutes you need to be effective. At the DII level, you need to be at least 6'5" and weigh at least 220...those are the lower ends of the spectrum. From that base, a player generally will become more effective as an inside force the more he exceeds those numbers. An inside player has to look at how he matches up with his counterpart and vary his game to exploit his strengths while magnifying the other players weaknesses...If your opposite number has a distinct weight advantage on you, you probably don't want to try and mussel him around...If you are a shade quicker than he is, you should do things that magnify your strength.

It also takes a player that want's to play inside for them to be effective at it in anything more than short spurts. As good as Meini was this year and across his whole WLU career, he was not mistake his game as one built on playing inside. Now he could do it for short spurts against most players, but when faced with a player who was really focused on playing inside, he couldn't compete.

WLU, as a team focuses on players "outside-in"...in other words, the outside game and then work in...3 point shooting and ability to play full court D are priorities #1 and by a pretty fair distance. Next priority in the middle game...dribble drive, mid-range jumpers, half court D...long range rebounds. Lowest priority is the inside game...taking the ball all the way to the hole/inside passes, inside rebounding, short put backs, in your face man defense. On a typical 14 man roster, we'll probably have 12 that excel in the first, two who's strong suit is the second and hear lately, none that you would say that the last is the strongest part of their game.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

WLU, at least for the last couple of years, has been a single strength team that was based on pressure and shooting 3's. Most nights, that is enough to win games with ease. But every now and then when they weren't quite as hot as usual from the outside and the other team had an inside player that could exploit our team weakness, we became very vulnerable. And the better the team was, the greater the chance they would have a player capable of beating us up inside.

Here's is the comparison between our "big" and his opposite number in the last game over the last three seasons:

2017 WJU's Highsmith, 23 points and 16 rebounds - WLU's Gross, 3 points and 6 rebounds
2018 Ship's Sleva, 20 points and 12 rebounds - WLU's Meini, 10 points and 4 rebounds
2019 Hurst's Smith, 16 points and 17 rebounds - WLU's Meini, 4 points and 3 rebounds

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Size comes in many packages and being an effective inside presence can take many forms. But I think there are some absolutes you need to be effective. At the DII level, you need to be at least 6'5" and weigh at least 220...those are the lower ends of the spectrum. From that base, a player generally will become more effective as an inside force the more he exceeds those numbers. An inside player has to look at how he matches up with his counterpart and vary his game to exploit his strengths while magnifying the other players weaknesses...If your opposite number has a distinct weight advantage on you, you probably don't want to try and mussel him around...If you are a shade quicker than he is, you should do things that magnify your strength.

It also takes a player that want's to play inside for them to be effective at it in anything more than short spurts. As good as Meini was this year and across his whole WLU career, he was not mistake his game as one built on playing inside. Now he could do it for short spurts against most players, but when faced with a player who was really focused on playing inside, he couldn't compete.

WLU, as a team focuses on players "outside-in"...in other words, the outside game and then work in...3 point shooting and ability to play full court D are priorities #1 and by a pretty fair distance. Next priority in the middle game...dribble drive, mid-range jumpers, half court D...long range rebounds. Lowest priority is the inside game...taking the ball all the way to the hole/inside passes, inside rebounding, short put backs, in your face man defense. On a typical 14 man roster, we'll probably have 12 that excel in the first, two who's strong suit is the second and hear lately, none that you would say that the last is the strongest part of their game.

Will be interesting to watch long term development of hazelbaker. He likes mixing it up inside but also hit 38% of threes.