PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

And because of that "state-related" status, Penn State, Pitt, Temple and Lincoln don't have to comply with open records laws like the PASSHE schools have to. The more I think about it, either the Commonwealth needs to buy out the "state-related" schools or find a way to get those schools to comply with the same transparency as other state agencies.

I always thought it was funny how the Harrisburg Patriot-News/PennLive tried for years to have Paterno's salary made public and eventually sued over it. Then when it was revealed, it was a fraction of what other major college coaches were making.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Their football team gets year-round coverage from our area Harrisburg TV stations. My alma mater, located much closer to Harrisburg than Penn State, can't even get on the air or in the declining newspapers in our area. I acknowledge they're the big football story in the state, but it would be nice if our media realize they aren't the only football (and other sports) story.

I used to love reading the game stories from a different viewpoint (i.e. whomever IUP was playing). It's literally amazing how few of our leagues' schools actually get their games covered. And, by covered, I mean an actual game story with quotes (not cut/paste a paragraph recap from the SID).

I totally get the business side of it. Penn State lives in the castle and we follow the peasants. The Pittsburgh papers have absolutely zero interest in cover PSAC sports. But, some of our small towns (that actually still have newspapers) don't even cover the games. I don't think any of the schools hold coaches' press conferences after the games any longer. Hell, the Erie (city) paper has three teams (Edinboro, Mercyhurst and Gannon) and rarely covers anything.

It's a shame. We miss out on some real good quotes occasionally. I'm very appreciative we still have the Indiana Gazette and the coverage Matt and Tony provide for football and basketball.

Former SRU hoops coach Kevin Reynolds had one of the best tirades I've ever read after losing at IUP back in 2014. Former SRU DE Chad Kuhn mouthed off in the The Rocket two years ago and ignited a firestorm within the IUP program (and SRU soon after got walloped at home). Those are the things we miss out on these days.

[Ship69]

I always thought it was funny how the Harrisburg Patriot-News/PennLive tried for years to have Paterno's salary made public and eventually sued over it. Then when it was revealed, it was a fraction of what other major college coaches were making.

Well, that's fine, but it's not entirely the point. If you're going to take state money, people paying the freight need to see what the money is being used for. Simple as that. It's true whether he's making $50,000 or $5 million.

[iupgroundhog]

Well, that's fine, but it's not entirely the point. If you're going to take state money, people paying the freight need to see what the money is being used for. Simple as that. It's true whether he's making $50,000 or $5 million.

I agree 100% but I still thought it was funny regarding JoePa's salary. It wasn't like they were demanding to know anybody else's salary.

[Predatory Primates]

You guys have had a good program out there. Probably helps that Kansas has a spotty football history, although K-State has been tough for a while now.

Yeah. It's an easier sell.

The problem these days is that small market media is dying altogether. Local papers (the few that still exist)just reprint national news for the most part. Local TV has such small budgets that one person may be trying to cover every HS and college sport in a hundred mile radius.

[Fightingscot82]

We are talking about Penn State and Pitt who get millions from the state and they are not owned by the state. They also get millions from their athletic conferences. Why does Penn State need 400 million a year from Harrisburg when they are about to spend 700 million on Beaver Stadium renovations?

Wouldn't you love at least a 7 million upgrade to The Denny courtesy of Harrisburg? You'd be lucky to get 7 dollars.

It's absurd that these two schools eat up so much public funding when they are NOT STATE OWNED PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES.

IUP and East Dennyburg should both be getting far more funding so they can lower tuition because that is what should be done at STATE OWNED PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES. They should be chaep and affordable so they are accessible to all of the people of Pennsylvania. Students at our schools should not have to take out outrageous loans that take years to pay back to attend a STATE OWNED PUBLIC UNIVERISTY.

You really should be mad at how Penn State and Pitt get money they doesn't deserve. Our schools are being short changed because of them.

Enough is enough...they have revenue sources that state system schools will never have.....

As for Seton Hill, LIT AF and The Lake Show...they are private Catholic Schools. They are own their own...like Penn State and Pitt should be...

I think the highest priority for the state should be determining a per-student funding rate for the different classifications instead of arguing big arbitrary appropriation figures. Here is how it shook out for 2022-23 per student:

Thaddeus Stevens: $15,260 per student
Lincoln: $10,417 per student

PASSHE: $6,925 per student
Pitt: $5,876 per student
Temple: $4,940 per student
Penn State: $2,743 per student

Numbers are the 2022-23 state appropriation and the fall 22 enrollment for each. Penn State's appropriation doesn't include all the agriculture and extension funds they get to do non-college stuff as our state A&M university.

My argument has always been that PASSHE (and Thaddeus Stevens) funding and tuition should be tied to the federal Pell Grant program so that the highest Pell Grant covers PASSHE tuition & fees. The PHEAA grant funding model should be reversed so the highest grants go to those attending PASSHE, not those attending private colleges, so that the PHEAA grant covers the lowest level of room & board. That way the neediest students can attend for free. Pitt and Penn State can start fundraising for their endowments to cover scholarships instead of professorships and department operating funds if they want to attract these students. State-related funding should be half that of PASSHE. By and large they have fundraising capacity to make up the difference and beyond Temple they're just using branch campuses to farm out the average students who would otherwise be attending PASSHE schools but are willing to pay more for the brand name logo on their diploma.

[Fightingscot82]

My local state rep, a decent guy, is an ultra conservative whom I don't agree with much, but he's become very aware of this issue and told me he's inclined to support schools the state actually owns. I think more people are swinging over to this point of view.

As a former journalist, it pissed me off to see that Penn State planned to completely cut off financial support next year for The Daily Collegian, the student newspaper that has been around since 1887. An average of 160 students work for the newspaper and it costs the $160,000, probably about the price of a single full professor, if that.

Before I was aware of Penn State's weird "state-related" status, I always wondered why they were the only B1G school along with Northwestern (a private school) not to report their coaches' salaries.

There are some strong (and some ultra) conservatives supporting PASSHE. I think the years of tuition freezes in exchange for funding increases is a winning strategy. The transparency is huge. You can look up the salary of EVERY. SINGLE. PASSHE. EMPLOYEE. If you ever wanted to know how much the honors college office secretary makes at IUP, she's on there. The budgets - including how much cash reserves they hold - is public. The tuition is significantly and increasingly lower than the state-relateds. Its hard to complain about the cost of college when we have options in PA. There is one 4-year college in Wyoming.

[Ship69]

I agree 100% but I still thought it was funny regarding JoePa's salary. It wasn't like they were demanding to know anybody else's salary.

Well, I doubt there was that much interest in, say, a math professor's salary. When there is that much money going into a program, people are naturally curious about who is getting what.

[Ship69]

There are some strong (and some ultra) conservatives supporting PASSHE. I think the years of tuition freezes in exchange for funding increases is a winning strategy. The transparency is huge. You can look up the salary of EVERY. SINGLE. PASSHE. EMPLOYEE. If you ever wanted to know how much the honors college office secretary makes at IUP, she's on there. The budgets - including how much cash reserves they hold - is public. The tuition is significantly and increasingly lower than the state-relateds. Its hard to complain about the cost of college when we have options in PA. There is one 4-year college in Wyoming.

If they can pry more aid out of the legislature and hold to the tuition strategy, I think they've got a winner. Ship President Charles Patterson recently told us that, because of the freezes that started before Covid, Ship tuition (adjusted for inflation) was effectively 13 percent cheaper than it had been four years earlier. And that was before they decided to extend the freeze this year.

Our big problem is demographics and the fact that there are over 200 colleges in Pa. We have just the opposite problem of Wyoming.

[IUPNation]

I think the highest priority for the state should be determining a per-student funding rate for the different classifications instead of arguing big arbitrary appropriation figures. Here is how it shook out for 2022-23 per student:

Thaddeus Stevens: $15,260 per student
Lincoln: $10,417 per student

PASSHE: $6,925 per student
Pitt: $5,876 per student
Temple: $4,940 per student
Penn State: $2,743 per student

Numbers are the 2022-23 state appropriation and the fall 22 enrollment for each. Penn State's appropriation doesn't include all the agriculture and extension funds they get to do non-college stuff as our state A&M university.

My argument has always been that PASSHE (and Thaddeus Stevens) funding and tuition should be tied to the federal Pell Grant program so that the highest Pell Grant covers PASSHE tuition & fees. The PHEAA grant funding model should be reversed so the highest grants go to those attending PASSHE, not those attending private colleges, so that the PHEAA grant covers the lowest level of room & board. That way the neediest students can attend for free. Pitt and Penn State can start fundraising for their endowments to cover scholarships instead of professorships and department operating funds if they want to attract these students. State-related funding should be half that of PASSHE. By and large they have fundraising capacity to make up the difference and beyond Temple they're just using branch campuses to farm out the average students who would otherwise be attending PASSHE schools but are willing to pay more for the brand name logo on their diploma.

I nominate you to be Chancellor.

[Fightingscot82]

Another good thing for PASSHE that deserves recognition: PASSHE also requested $30 million (outside the standard appropriation) to help pay down construction debt at the PennWest campuses that is weighing down their budget. PASSHE asked for $30 million and the Senate Republican Majority Caucus bumped up the amount to $65.4 million. That's HUGE and hopefully can allow the PennWest venture to focus on growth & development instead of finding the last few places to cut into the bone just to balance the budget.

[iupgroundhog]

Well, I doubt there was that much interest in, say, a math professor's salary. When there is that much money going into a program, people are naturally curious about who is getting what.

My memory tells me he was referred to as "the highest-paid state employee." FS82 can tell me if that was an accurate description or not. A little bit off-topic but I always think it's interesting how people tend to look at government expenditures as $$ down the drain. The fact is that Paterno created a billion-dollar industry. How much revenue accrued to the state as a result of his life's work?

[Fightingscot82]

My memory tells me he was referred to as "the highest-paid state employee." FS82 can tell me if that was an accurate description or not. A little bit off-topic but I always think it's interesting how people tend to look at government expenditures as $$ down the drain. The fact is that Paterno created a billion-dollar industry. How much revenue accrued to the state as a result of his life's work?

I think that was their rationale at the time - but it also proved to be somewhat untrue as a) Penn State employees are not state employees, and b) we learned his base salary paid by the university was small but he received seven figure compensation through Nike and other program ventures.

Patriot News/PennLive has a weird fascination with state employee compensation. They still make a huge deal out of their annual list of state employees making $100,000 a year. That is a nice round number but beyond Boomers that income isn't the elite number it used to be. A PA State Police officer makes that much in year 13. Imagine living in rural PA being in your mid 30s making six figures with their cost of living.

[WarriorVoice]

I think there's a lesson to be learned here. If you can't speak to that, you probably shouldn't. Not on the PSAC D2 board, anyway.

Yeah. I'll do that right after you do. Who the hell are you to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't say on a discussion board?!

[Ship69]

My memory tells me he was referred to as "the highest-paid state employee." FS82 can tell me if that was an accurate description or not. A little bit off-topic but I always think it's interesting how people tend to look at government expenditures as $$ down the drain. The fact is that Paterno created a billion-dollar industry. How much revenue accrued to the state as a result of his life's work?

He made Penn State football a lot bigger, but it was already a pretty substantial property before he arrived. And huge TV contracts have certainly poured a lot of money into the kitty.