Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[Stanger86]

In my opinion, they can't afford to lose all the students. I don't think the move to D2 was well thought out.

A lot of people seem to believe that schools cannot survive as a Division II institution if the university has a small enrollment. But were we saying the same thing about USF when they reclassified?

I think it's important to remember that this is not the D2 of 20 years ago, when most of the programs were up over 10,000 students. Division II has changed, and so has higher education in general. Having a small enrollment is not the death sentence it once was. There are currently 119 schools with full Division II membership that have an enrollment under 3,000. That includes four NSIC institutions.

[Purple Mav Man]

A lot of people seem to believe that schools cannot survive as a Division II institution if the university has a small enrollment. But were we saying the same thing about USF when they reclassified?

I think it's important to remember that this is not the D2 of 20 years ago, when most of the programs were up over 10,000 students. Division II has changed, and so has higher education in general. Having a small enrollment is not the death sentence it once was. There are currently 119 schools with full Division II membership that have an enrollment under 3,000. That includes four NSIC institutions.

I can’t remember a time when most D2 schools had 10K+ enrollments. And you’re 100% correct, this is different now than then. Schools weren’t closing then. Schools weren’t hemorrhaging students and money then (most weren’t anyway). Guess which schools have closed? The ones with small, athlete heavy, enrollments. Once again, not saying Jamestown is in danger of that, but I think it’s incorrect to say that a small enrollment is a non-issue.

3000 enrollment is nice. Jamestown is nowhere near that and likely to dip under 1000. So I’m not sure why you chose 3000 as the example, other than to lump 4 NSIC schools in.

[Stanger86]

I can’t remember a time when most D2 schools had 10K+ enrollments. And you’re 100% correct, this is different now than then. Schools weren’t closing then. Schools weren’t hemorrhaging students and money then (most weren’t anyway). Guess which schools have closed? The ones with small, athlete heavy, enrollments. Once again, not saying Jamestown is in danger of that, but I think it’s incorrect to say that a small enrollment is a non-issue.

3000 enrollment is nice. Jamestown is nowhere near that and likely to dip under 1000. So I’m not sure why you chose 3000 as the example, other than to lump 4 NSIC schools in.

Of the 16 institutions who spent any time in the North Central Conference as full members, 10 of them had an enrollment of over 10,000. I do think that people who followed NCC programs at that time have created an idealized version in their minds of what Division II athletics should look like. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I just don't think it is rooted in reality of what Division II athletics looks like in 2024.

And I went up to 3,000 because I think gives a better perspective of Division II as a whole. I think the fact that over 1/3rd of Division II institutions are in that range is rather significant.

[debergfan]

Of the 16 institutions who spent any time in the North Central Conference as full members, 10 of them had an enrollment of over 10,000. I do think that people who followed NCC programs at that time have created an idealized version in their minds of what Division II athletics should look like. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I just don't think it is rooted in reality of what Division II athletics looks like in 2024.

And I went up to 3,000 because I think gives a better perspective of Division II as a whole. I think the fact that over 1/3rd of Division II institutions are in that range is rather significant.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhi...akest-schools/

Forbes 2024 financial grades
Jamestown D
Sioux Falls C
Concordia University-Saint Paul C
Mary C

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator...=all&id=200156
Percent admitted 94%
978 undergraduate
estimate 677 student-athletes

[Tech Boys]

2023-24 Division II Facts and Figures

293 active members (including the Puerto Rico schools)

49% private / 51% public (this is flipped from 2021-22)

54.3% - 159 institutions with fewer than 2,500 students
37.2% - 109 institutions with 2,500-7,499 students
6.5% - 19 institutions with 7,500-14,999 students
2% - 6 institutions with more than 15,000 students

[Purple Mav Man]

Of the 16 institutions who spent any time in the North Central Conference as full members, 10 of them had an enrollment of over 10,000. I do think that people who followed NCC programs at that time have created an idealized version in their minds of what Division II athletics should look like. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I just don't think it is rooted in reality of what Division II athletics looks like in 2024.

And I went up to 3,000 because I think gives a better perspective of Division II as a whole. I think the fact that over 1/3rd of Division II institutions are in that range is rather significant.

The NCC was always an outlier. They had big schools for D2, and the majority in that conference were in fact over 10k. But not the majority in D2 as you stated. And I don’t think that has created an idealized version, when the NCC was in its heyday, the member schools now in the NSIC weren’t very good. But your hatred for those NCC schools is showing again by your reference. My vision of D2, and more importantly the NSIC in particular, is greater than adding an athlete dependent school that struggles to be top half of their current conference in all sports (yes…more than football).

[Purple Mav Man]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhi...akest-schools/

Forbes 2024 financial grades
Jamestown D
Sioux Falls C
Concordia University-Saint Paul C
Mary C

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator...=all&id=200156
Percent admitted 94%
978 undergraduate
estimate 677 student-athletes

This is what is relevant with their small enrollment. The others, including the D2 breakdown, are just surface numbers and not a surprise to anyone.

[Stanger86]

The NCC was always an outlier. They had big schools for D2, and the majority in that conference were in fact over 10k. But not the majority in D2 as you stated. And I don’t think that has created an idealized version, when the NCC was in its heyday, the member schools now in the NSIC weren’t very good. But your hatred for those NCC schools is showing again by your reference. My vision of D2, and more importantly the NSIC in particular, is greater than adding an athlete dependent school that struggles to be top half of their current conference in all sports (yes…more than football).

If enrollment doesn't matter, why do you (and others) fixate so much on Jamestown's enrollment?

[Purple Mav Man]

If enrollment doesn't matter, why do you (and others) fixate so much on Jamestown's enrollment?

It’s been in about 20-25 posts. But look at the one just previous to yours. That is why. And I guess I don’t recall saying enrollment doesn’t matter? And certainly didn’t in the post your quoted.

[vikingfaithful]

The Jimmies are in the NSIC very soon, but optically they appear to be a poor choice. Wait... they were the only choice, nobody else came knocking on the door. It was too hasty of a decision to admit them in. Conference functioned just fine at an uneven number. League could have waited it out until a better choice came along or a school dropped out. Prepare for another Crookston, athletically speaking.

[debergfan]

The Jimmies are in the NSIC very soon, but optically they appear to be a poor choice. Wait... they were the only choice, nobody else came knocking on the door. It was too hasty of a decision to admit them in. Conference functioned just fine at an uneven number. League could have waited it out until a better choice came along or a school dropped out. Prepare for another Crookston, athletically speaking.

100% well said.

[MrMustang]

2023-24 Division II Facts and Figures

293 active members (including the Puerto Rico schools)

49% private / 51% public (this is flipped from 2021-22)

54.3% - 159 institutions with fewer than 2,500 students
37.2% - 109 institutions with 2,500-7,499 students
6.5% - 19 institutions with 7,500-14,999 students
2% - 6 institutions with more than 15,000 students

interesting number and facts

[Purple Mav Man]

https://jimmiepride.com/sports/mbkb/2024-25/schedule

The disrespect shown by the Jims…not showing the logos of the NSIC teams. Haha

[oldyellaHer69]

Jimmies win the final paint bucket game, great momentum headed into the offseason. Also hear they got their eyes on an offensive coordinator with NSIC experience.

[Stanger86]

Also hear they got their eyes on an offensive coordinator with NSIC experience.

May I interest you in Zac Cunha?