West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Dennis and Guillozet are package deal. It's down to Lincoln Memorial or Embry Riddle in Florida, where Mike Lamberti coaches.

I hope it is Embry Riddle. strong academic school (#12 in south among regional universitities. $46K a year for tuition and room and board). One of the strongest Aeronautical Universities.
Also, Clay and Dennis are probably the missing pieces for Lincoln Mem national championship with their inside game, so they could really hurt the East Regional winner in Lincoln.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

If Dennis were allowed to go to Nova and were strongly considering Nova the argument could be made that west lib might have landed Smith. As a result the loss MAY have increased from 2 to 3 players, clay, David and Smith of North hills due to west libs pettiness. Makes we wonder if there is more to crutchfield's departure given their restrictions that are not in their best interest.

Don't understand what you are saying here? Are you saying that if WLU restricted Dennis from transferring to Nova, Smith would not come? If that is the case and Smith will only come to WLU if WLU does not restrict transfers, I say, go elsewhere Mr Smith. If he's coming to WLU with one eye on the door, he's not the type of team player WLU wants or needs.

Good luck finding a program that does not restrict transfers. WLU has been one of the least restrictive programs in that regard. Seems like the restrictions that are speculated on Dennis and Gauzolet are pretty standard...Pretty typical for a school that has lost a top tier coach to another program to restrict that coaches ability to gut their roster. Not that Crutch would do that, but if the restrictions are what we are speculating, this removes any temptation.

[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I have a question which I don't think has been addressed concerning the transfers. Since it appears that Crutch is not taking Dennis or Clay at NOVA and they are not transferring up to D1 since we haven't heard of any D1 schools interested , why are they transferring to another D2 school? Why are they not staying at WL?

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Don't know. Player would have to eat a lot of crow to come back to a program (and former fellow players) they walked out on for "greener pastures." Not many college age ego's would permit a player who basically said "I'm better than this" to come back.

From a coaches prespective, how inclined would you be to welcome back a player(s) who basically said, "I know you helped make me the player I am, but you just aren't good enough to get me were I should be."

I'd put their chances of coming back at 10% but that's only because I don't want to say never.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Don't understand what you are saying here? Are you saying that if WLU restricted Dennis from transferring to Nova, Smith would not come? If that is the case and Smith will only come to WLU if WLU does not restrict transfers, I say, go elsewhere Mr Smith. If he's coming to WLU with one eye on the door, he's not the type of team player WLU wants or needs.

Good luck finding a program that does not restrict transfers. WLU has been one of the least restrictive programs in that regard. Seems like the restrictions that are speculated on Dennis and Gauzolet are pretty standard...Pretty typical for a school that has lost a top tier coach to another program to restrict that coaches ability to gut their roster. Not that Crutch would do that, but if the restrictions are what we are speculating, this removes any temptation.

I probably wasn't clear. It was sheer speculation on my part. If Dennis had committed to Nova then it is possible Smith would have come to wlu as he is a point guard and wouldn't sit behind dennis at nova. We were losing Dennis regardless. Now we lost Smith too. I know it is standard to have restrictions but as crutch often pointed out many things coaches do lack a rational reason. In this case wlu policy MAY have lost 9 player years instead of 5.
Of course crutch may not have wanted Dennis and clay.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I have a question which I don't think has been addressed concerning the transfers. Since it appears that Crutch is not taking Dennis or Clay at NOVA and they are not transferring up to D1 since we haven't heard of any D1 schools interested , why are they transferring to another D2 school? Why are they not staying at WL?

That is the 64k question . I suspected Dennis thinks he is d1, but clay? A package deal that was rumored does not help Dennis go d1 as clay is a drag on a d1 deal due to size and quickness.

Do they wonder as we do that if wlu cannot land a big man then that hurts national title odds and want to win title?
Not many players at west lib had the frosh season that clay had. Hard to understand. Rising Star at d2 level.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

That is the 64k question . I suspected Dennis thinks he is d1, but clay? A package deal that was rumored does not help Dennis go d1 as clay is a drag on a d1 deal due to size and quickness.

Do they wonder as we do that if wlu cannot land a big man then that hurts national title odds and want to win title?
Not many players at west lib had the frosh season that clay had. Hard to understand. Rising Star at d2 level.

Let's not over sell Guillozet. He had a vey good freshman campaign but only garnered 4 starts. Yes, he averaged 23 minutes over his 25 games but averaged 11 PPG (.44/min) That's roughly equiv to what Beau Justice and Bubby Goodwin produced per min their freshman years. How did their transfers work out? In fact, Arnold produced more per minute of play than Guillozet his freshman campaign.

So what set's Guillozet apart from these three examples? He got more total minutes per game, that is true but beyond that, nothing really. What he had was a very good freshman campaign that hints at potential to be a top tier DII player. But as recent history has shown, a really good freshman year doesn't always translate into being the next big thing.

That said, I would have liked to see what he was capable of in Topper gold as opposed to another color. But I guess it's not to be.

[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

West Liberty has shown that several players have got the opportunity to play overseas in Europe. With their system you can produce some favorable stats which help you get noticed. Lets face it, that's about the best you are going to do if you are a D2 player as far as pay for play. They have as good a chance to play overseas if they stay at WL as anywhere else. You know what you have here verses the unknown.

[Chevydude89]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

And if u dont win 30 games and you dont get any bigs(agree with columbuser) they could end up declining towards a .500 program over the next few years and recruiting goes downhill then how does that help a kid play overseas or a new run program benefit these younger players that came to "Church Crutch" Potential trouble or it could stay a winning team and move forward seamlessly. Who knows whats being said behind closed doors. Wheeling comes back stacked. Fairmont is set with new coach with lots of potential and backing from a new D1 coach for potential referrals. You get 1 more year out of monteroso what happens after that. Everyone talks about D1 for Dennis i think his interest from what ive heard on here and elsewhere is all D2 but finding a program that can win a NT. Him and clay g at a school with talented bigs could be a ticket to a NT. Boatcapt crutch released any player with a handshake if they wanted. Class act as ive read above. Again its D2 none of these players are 1st rnd draft pics in the nba. Whats restrictions for at this level. Im thinking not for the players best interest for sure.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Duplicate post

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Resrictions are never for the players best interest, they are to protect the losing program from having to face a player that they have developed or in the case of a coach moving on, to prevent the coach from using the program he just left as his personal stock pile of players.

As for what happens at WLU, I note that their obituary has been written quite a few times over the last 10 years. Last season people were saying that there was no way we would replace Seger and then the transfer of Justice and Lococo coupled with the loss of Lamberti was just going to be too much...somehow we found a way to win 28 games, win the MEC tourney and all it took to bounce us from the NCAA tourney was OT, a bad call on the game winning shot, and a game ending injury to our top scorer. Year before that we lost our "Heart and Soul" when Hester graduated along with our starting PG and THEN Lococo was injured!!!! CERTAINLY no way WLU could possibly overcome the loss of THREE starters...35 games later WLU had found a way to win 31 games and make a trip to the E8. Year before that we lost Cedric Harris, Shawn Dyer, Keene Cockburn and "super sub" Bubby Goodwin off a team that went 31-4 and played in the NC game...shurely THAT was the "End of the WLU run" people wrote...Managed to win 28 games the following season.

Yep, people seem to want to write off WLU every year and it just never happens. We always seem to find a way to play some pretty good basketball even though people desperately pray we won't. Losing Crutch is probably the biggest challenge to face the program but if you believe it was his system and style that made WLU what it is, probably the most capable person to continue is the guy that has been at Crutch side for 11 of his last 12 seasons and who was the primary recruiter for the last six years. Doesn't guarantee success, but it is about as close as you can get.

Losing Dennis and Guillozet certainly hurts but we have lost better in the past and have found a way to continue to be pretty successful. I know that there are quite a few that are hoping this is a death blow for WLU but I would caution them to not write WLU's obituary so quickly. As has happened numerous times in the past, WLU has a way of taking those reports of their pending demise and ramming it down the "experts" throats!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I understand the rationale for restrictions. But how real is the risk of losing more than 1 or 2 players? And would those players gave left anyway like Dennis and clay? And if wlu has proven impervious to turnover as noted ( which I agree completely) isn't that an argument that the adverse effect of having no restrictions is overblown at wlu? Seems like a case of that's the way we do it without assessing risk on the part of ADs. Philosophically I support players over program. Would seem to be a differentiator over other schools, like a customer satisfaction guarantee to have no restrictions. In this case the customer is a player.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

According to VC, David Dennis had offer from nova se. Very interesting given he is purportedly restricted.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

He could still go there. He'd have to sit one year. Redshirt. WL only controls where he can play for one season -- meaning the 'duo' can still enroll at Nova SE and be on the team ... just can't play in the 2017-18 season. Neither redshirted at WL so they still have that as an option.

Sitting out a year when not injured feels like a real long time. I'd be shocked if either takes this option.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Redshirt at the DII level really doesn't exist...although we ALL talk about it as if it does. DII players have 10 semesters of total participation eligibility to play four seasons. Unlike D1's were they have a 5 year eligibility "clock" that starts ticking the second they start college.