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  • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

    They’d be a nothing burger in FBS.

    There should be tiers in D1…major, mid and lower. They’d be a mid team and the MAC and other weak FBS conferences get slotted there. Lower would be all those weak FCS conferences..that are really D3 in D1 clothing..like Duquesne and St Francis.
    They would certainly struggle to generate the dollars necessary to be a factor. Appalachian State might be a good comparison. They have a nice program that is competitive in its conference and sometimes gives top-tier teams fits in non-conference games, but overall they’re not in the national conversation. I think NDSU is right where it needs to be. It’s up to other programs at that level to match what they’ve been able to do.

    What we probably should be talking about is more FBS teams dropping down.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by EyeoftheHawk View Post

      They would certainly struggle to generate the dollars necessary to be a factor. Appalachian State might be a good comparison. They have a nice program that is competitive in its conference and sometimes gives top-tier teams fits in non-conference games, but overall they’re not in the national conversation. I think NDSU is right where it needs to be. It’s up to other programs at that level to match what they’ve been able to do.

      What we probably should be talking about is more FBS teams dropping down.
      Agreed..and some programs in P4 conferences need a come to Jesus moment..either try to compete or move down. Follow Fake Indiana’s lead or go down…

      Comment


      • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

        They’d be a nothing burger in FBS.

        There should be three tiers in D1…major, mid and lower. They’d be a mid team and the MAC and other weak FBS conferences get slotted there. Lower would be all those weak FCS conferences..that are really D3 in D1 clothing..like Duquesne and St Francis.
        I don’t know about that. I think if you put them in the Mountain West today they’d be extremely competitive out of the gate. And in 5-7 years, why couldn’t they do what Boise State is doing? From a name recognition and reputation standpoint, they’re well ahead of where Boise was when they moved up.

        I understand it’s all about the finances, and I’m sure that’s why they haven’t done it. But speaking strictly on the field, 10 championships at the B level is great, but I think they’ve outgrown it.

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        • Originally posted by Chuck Norris View Post

          I don’t know about that. I think if you put them in the Mountain West today they’d be extremely competitive out of the gate. And in 5-7 years, why couldn’t they do what Boise State is doing? From a name recognition and reputation standpoint, they’re well ahead of where Boise was when they moved up.

          I understand it’s all about the finances, and I’m sure that’s why they haven’t done it. But speaking strictly on the field, 10 championships at the B level is great, but I think they’ve outgrown it.

          Sometimes being the big fish in the small pond is good enough. That's my reasoning why Ferris State and GVSU are still D2.

          They both should be long gone from our ranks (and Mercyhurst should still be here).

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          • Originally posted by Chuck Norris View Post
            North Dakota State wins their 10th FCS title. I’m sure there plenty of factors as to why they haven’t moved up, mostly financial. But from a strictly football standpoint it seems long overdue.
            Big fish, small pond. Same with the runs of Northwest Missouri State and Grand Valley State after their runs in football and men's basketball. People also like winning and they're winning. Moving up probably means less winning in the short term. See: Texas State, Georgia Southern, App State, etc. The rare case is probably James Madison.

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            • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post


              Sometimes being the big fish in the small pond is good enough. That's my reasoning why Ferris State and GVSU are still D2.

              They both should be long gone from our ranks (and Mercyhurst should still be here).
              I agree about ND State. And they actually did move up (to FCS) some years ago. I'm old enough to remember Ship being competitive with them in a playoff game (and competitive with James Madison for that matter). Why not be the 10-time FCS champion rather than move up and have virtually no chance whatsoever to be FBS champ, especially with the new playoff system. The new system gives teams such as Boise as chance for the playoffs, but their chances of catching lightning in a bottle for four games in a row are very slim.

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              • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                Big fish, small pond. Same with the runs of Northwest Missouri State and Grand Valley State after their runs in football and men's basketball. People also like winning and they're winning. Moving up probably means less winning in the short term. See: Texas State, Georgia Southern, App State, etc. The rare case is probably James Madison.
                I get all of that. As far as the comparisons to those other programs, I don’t think there is a comparison. 10 NCs in 16 years is almost silly. It’s like playing sports against that kid in your class who’s 5 and a half feet tall in 2nd grade. If they’re content, good for them. If it was me, I’d move up.

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                • Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

                  I agree about ND State. And they actually did move up (to FCS) some years ago. I'm old enough to remember Ship being competitive with them in a playoff game (and competitive with James Madison for that matter). Why not be the 10-time FCS champion rather than move up and have virtually no chance whatsoever to be FBS champ, especially with the new playoff system. The new system gives teams such as Boise as chance for the playoffs, but their chances of catching lightning in a bottle for four games in a row are very slim.
                  Not to mention Boise State even got a bye.

                  Let them play a full BIG or SEC schedule. They wouldn't be getting a bye (or even making the playoff).

                  I know. Different topic.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Chuck Norris View Post

                    I get all of that. As far as the comparisons to those other programs, I don’t think there is a comparison. 10 NCs in 16 years is almost silly. It’s like playing sports against that kid in your class who’s 5 and a half feet tall in 2nd grade. If they’re content, good for them. If it was me, I’d move up.
                    Sure. I think another factor is that it wasn't all that long ago that NDSU was D2, so there may be some "move up" fatigue as well as finding a good conference fit. That region is kind of a no man's land for FBS. NDSU isn't a rich school either. Remember, they're not the flagship state school in North Dakota. They just surpassed UND in football. Financially, NDSU fits with G5 conference like the MAC. Winning fills their stadium and drives revenue. Moving up just so they can play for a Leftovers Bowl is going to eat away at that excitement.

                    The difference between NDSU and App State and GA Southern is that the latter two moved up after their success seemed to be running at the glass ceiling. Texas State was similar just without the championships. GA Southern won 6 in 15 years, winning back to back three different times. App State won 3 straight then started the process to move up.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                      Sure. I think another factor is that it wasn't all that long ago that NDSU was D2, so there may be some "move up" fatigue as well as finding a good conference fit. That region is kind of a no man's land for FBS. NDSU isn't a rich school either. Remember, they're not the flagship state school in North Dakota. They just surpassed UND in football. Financially, NDSU fits with G5 conference like the MAC. Winning fills their stadium and drives revenue. Moving up just so they can play for a Leftovers Bowl is going to eat away at that excitement.

                      The difference between NDSU and App State and GA Southern is that the latter two moved up after their success seemed to be running at the glass ceiling. Texas State was similar just without the championships. GA Southern won 6 in 15 years, winning back to back three different times. App State won 3 straight then started the process to move up.
                      Whoa, whoa, whoa. NDSU is a top 100 research university in the nation and surpassed UND in football in 1965 (588 wins and 18 national championships since 1964.)

                      The only thing keeping NDSU from joining the FBS is that they can't force an FBS conference to invite them. If the Mountain West or MAC invited NDSU as a football-only member, NDSU would accept in .01 seconds. But, yes, there would be challenges. There is a lot of frustration with being "stuck" in the FCS, but I figure that if NDSU can't move up, they might as well take it out on the FCS.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tony View Post

                        Whoa, whoa, whoa. NDSU is a top 100 research university in the nation and surpassed UND in football in 1965 (588 wins and 18 national championships since 1964.)

                        The only thing keeping NDSU from joining the FBS is that they can't force an FBS conference to invite them. If the Mountain West or MAC invited NDSU as a football-only member, NDSU would accept in .01 seconds. But, yes, there would be challenges. There is a lot of frustration with being "stuck" in the FCS, but I figure that if NDSU can't move up, they might as well take it out on the FCS.
                        Yeah I wasn’t sure what that meant when NDSU has lapped UND multiple times over in terms of football success.

                        Interesting and unexpected perspective from an NDSU fan. Obviously as a D2 website/message board points of view will always skew in favor of the lower levels, the “little guy” if you will. But I’m not surprised at all that NDSU and their fans are ready to move up, I just didn’t want to speak for them.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Chuck Norris View Post

                          Yeah I wasn’t sure what that meant when NDSU has lapped UND multiple times over in terms of football success.

                          Interesting and unexpected perspective from an NDSU fan. Obviously as a D2 website/message board points of view will always skew in favor of the lower levels, the “little guy” if you will. But I’m not surprised at all that NDSU and their fans are ready to move up, I just didn’t want to speak for them.
                          I can't speak for NDSU fans either and would follow the Bison no matter what their division, but many NDSU fans seem bored with winning all the time. That is bizarre to me. NDSU's playoff games were really closely fought other than Mercer.


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                          • Originally posted by tony View Post

                            I can't speak for NDSU fans either and would follow the Bison no matter what their division, but many NDSU fans seem bored with winning all the time. That is bizarre to me. NDSU's playoff games were really closely fought other than Mercer.

                            I don’t think anyone moves to FCS with the idea of staying there permanently. FBS is always the goal. I’d certainly rather win as much as possible while there, but I can see getting frustrated or even bored if you can’t go where you truly want to end up.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tony View Post

                              Whoa, whoa, whoa. NDSU is a top 100 research university in the nation and surpassed UND in football in 1965 (588 wins and 18 national championships since 1964.)

                              The only thing keeping NDSU from joining the FBS is that they can't force an FBS conference to invite them. If the Mountain West or MAC invited NDSU as a football-only member, NDSU would accept in .01 seconds. But, yes, there would be challenges. There is a lot of frustration with being "stuck" in the FCS, but I figure that if NDSU can't move up, they might as well take it out on the FCS.
                              With all due respect, NDSU isn't a top 100 research university by any measure. Its a very fine school and all but its not anywhere near top 100. NDSU has a strong agricultural research component as the state's ag school, but even then they're not on the same level as most Big Ten and Big 12 ag schools.

                              NDSU won't move up because a) they're winning a lot and that pays everyone's bills in the athletic department, and b) Fargo doesn't add much to anyone's media market (why they're not being invited). Geographically speaking, the only conference that makes sense would be the Mountain West, but that would still be a big jump in travel expenses. NDSU's athletic budget is only about 120% of Grand Valley's, so I'm not sure if the TV contract revenue could make up for the increased expenses. All of this is assuming they fully join a G5 conference like the MWC; I guess they could stay in the Summit and move football up. NDSU heavily subsidizes its athletic program and overall enrollment has dropped quite a bit in the last few years, so their trustees would have to see a very compelling case for moving in spite of years of annual losses.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

                                I agree about ND State. And they actually did move up (to FCS) some years ago. I'm old enough to remember Ship being competitive with them in a playoff game (and competitive with James Madison for that matter). Why not be the 10-time FCS champion rather than move up and have virtually no chance whatsoever to be FBS champ, especially with the new playoff system. The new system gives teams such as Boise as chance for the playoffs, but their chances of catching lightning in a bottle for four games in a row are very slim.
                                I see this question a lot. The way I've come to see it is that the fans are willing to trade the chance to be top dawgs for a better regular season, in addition to the greater exposure and media payouts. JMU is a great comparison point, because they were essentially the last east-coast team that could compete with NDSU. Their schedule is now filled with former FCS powers like App State, Georgia Southern, and Marshall, plus one annual game against a P4, including wins the past two years over Virginia and UNC. Would Virginia have even scheduled JMU if they weren't FBS? Unlikely.

                                NDSU's issue has always been geography. They are a tough sell for administrators who are all about markets. But by virtue of being an FBS team, they would be able to fill their schedule with FBS teams that were formerly their peers, rather than FCS teams that they have mostly surpassed. They would also more easily be able to schedule more P4 matchups, which are really valuable. Taken in full, it's tough to turn down, especially since they've already proven their dominance in FCS. There's nothing more for them to do.

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