OT: D1

[Ship69]

Aliquippa has about 100 boys in the entire school. To win 4A this year was amazing.

Had they stayed in Class 1A (where they belong) they'd have probably won an incredible amount of PIAA gold.

Steel-High from our area just won its fifth 1A championship and third in the last four years. Before the mill closed in Steelton years ago, the Rollers always used to play up with the big boys in football and basketball and were always competitive, especially in basketball. They won five state basketball championships playing above their class and were runner-up a couple of other years. They probably would have had 10 or more state titles if they'd played at 2A or 1A in basketball. Enrollment has dropped to the point now where it's hard for them to be competitive in big-school basketball, especially with the recruiting that goes on.

[Ship69]

The do have excellent recruiting. Lol

Ridiculous. Playing schools that don't play by the same rules must be ridiculous for some of the public school coaches.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Ridiculous. Playing schools that don't play by the same rules must be ridiculous for some of the public school coaches.

I have a close friend who is the HC of a 4A WPIAL (public) program. He often describes it as he can only play the hand he's dealt. If his best choice at cornerback is an inexperienced sophomore ... he has no other option. They don't dip in to the (pretend portal) and sign a senior DB for the season. He's also had to deal with losing 5-6 kids the past several years to Pittsburgh Central Catholic and Greensburg Central Catholic.

Probably similiar to most coaches in 4A and down, he's constantly recruiting (begging) kids to come out for the team. Their numbers are so low these days (even at the PeeWee level).

[Fightingscot82]

I have a close friend who is the HC of a 4A WPIAL (public) program. He often describes it as he can only play the hand he's dealt. If his best choice at cornerback is an inexperienced sophomore ... he has no other option. They don't dip in to the (pretend portal) and sign a senior DB for the season. He's also had to deal with losing 5-6 kids the past several years to Pittsburgh Central Catholic and Greensburg Central Catholic.

Probably similiar to most coaches in 4A and down, he's constantly recruiting (begging) kids to come out for the team. Their numbers are so low these days (even at the PeeWee level).

Some good points there. A public high school is only going to be as strong as its youth programs. Also some communities are just not destination communities so they have the kids who live there and very little option other than to develop the pee wee talent. People moving to Pittsburgh generally don't choose to live in Clairton or Aliquippa, so it makes what they're doing even more impressive, and explains how some of the nicer suburban districts are generally pretty good. I went to North Allegheny 25 years ago before it got wealthier on average than it already was, but it was already an attractive place to live. There were companies that would recommend it to a family when mom or dad was transferred to the Pittsburgh office. Having 300+ boys in each grade to choose from also helps find the best talent. Unless you are Speedy Gonzales, you're not making the 100 man roster if you're 5'8" and 160 pounds. JV doesn't stand on the sidelines. NA also has 3 middle schools, so there were 6 middle school teams that help develop kids prepping them for that 9th grade JV team. Plus a very strong pee wee league. Throw in some kids of players & coaches who chose to live in Wexford & Marshall and you're rarely going to be bad.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Some good points there. A public high school is only going to be as strong as its youth programs. Also some communities are just not destination communities so they have the kids who live there and very little option other than to develop the pee wee talent. People moving to Pittsburgh generally don't choose to live in Clairton or Aliquippa, so it makes what they're doing even more impressive, and explains how some of the nicer suburban districts are generally pretty good. I went to North Allegheny 25 years ago before it got wealthier on average than it already was, but it was already an attractive place to live. There were companies that would recommend it to a family when mom or dad was transferred to the Pittsburgh office. Having 300+ boys in each grade to choose from also helps find the best talent. Unless you are Speedy Gonzales, you're not making the 100 man roster if you're 5'8" and 160 pounds. JV doesn't stand on the sidelines. NA also has 3 middle schools, so there were 6 middle school teams that help develop kids prepping them for that 9th grade JV team. Plus a very strong pee wee league. Throw in some kids of players & coaches who chose to live in Wexford & Marshall and you're rarely going to be bad.

That's the exception for sure.

We went to high school about the same time. Back then most schools had a 9th grade team, then a JV team (that dressed varsity).

Most 4A and even some 5A teams no longer have a 9th grade team. They all dress varsity. Amazingly, many 9th and 10th graders actually play varsity. In my time 'maybe' the star 10th grader would play special teams but that was it (if that). To see 9th graders playing Friday night is just insane to me. They'd have been broken in half 25 years ago.

Locally here Indiana High routinely plays 9th and 10th graders on Friday nights. Times sure have changed.

[Ship69]

I have a close friend who is the HC of a 4A WPIAL (public) program. He often describes it as he can only play the hand he's dealt. If his best choice at cornerback is an inexperienced sophomore ... he has no other option. They don't dip in to the (pretend portal) and sign a senior DB for the season. He's also had to deal with losing 5-6 kids the past several years to Pittsburgh Central Catholic and Greensburg Central Catholic.

Probably similiar to most coaches in 4A and down, he's constantly recruiting (begging) kids to come out for the team. Their numbers are so low these days (even at the PeeWee level).

Manheim Central for years has had one of the stronger programs in District 3 and they're currently playing 4A. They were unbeaten when they played Bishop McDevitt is the district playoffs last year and got pounded. "Nice 6A team we played there," their coach quipped after that game. They managed to get within a touchdown of a somewhat weaker McDevitt team this year. I was glad to see Dallas take out both McDevitt and a Philly Catholic squad in the playoffs. Aliquippa apparently played a helluva game against Dallas in the final. They do have quite a tradition there. Just nice to see an all-public final at a 4A or above game for a change.

[Ship69]

Some good points there. A public high school is only going to be as strong as its youth programs. Also some communities are just not destination communities so they have the kids who live there and very little option other than to develop the pee wee talent. People moving to Pittsburgh generally don't choose to live in Clairton or Aliquippa, so it makes what they're doing even more impressive, and explains how some of the nicer suburban districts are generally pretty good. I went to North Allegheny 25 years ago before it got wealthier on average than it already was, but it was already an attractive place to live. There were companies that would recommend it to a family when mom or dad was transferred to the Pittsburgh office. Having 300+ boys in each grade to choose from also helps find the best talent. Unless you are Speedy Gonzales, you're not making the 100 man roster if you're 5'8" and 160 pounds. JV doesn't stand on the sidelines. NA also has 3 middle schools, so there were 6 middle school teams that help develop kids prepping them for that 9th grade JV team. Plus a very strong pee wee league. Throw in some kids of players & coaches who chose to live in Wexford & Marshall and you're rarely going to be bad.

District 1 has some huge schools, but they can't get past the Philly Catholic League schools in recent years. I think it's been about 20 years since District 1 won its last title. The days of the Central Bucks West juggernauts is long gone.

[IUPNation]

Ridiculous. Playing schools that don't play by the same rules must be ridiculous for some of the public school coaches.

I went to a now closed Catholic High School in Norristown, PA. It got stomped every year by Norristown High. In fact the coach at Norristown actively recruited the best players in the Catholic CYO leagues that were part of the feeder parishes into our high school.

So yeah..nobody cried for us and our 33 game losing streak…..

[IUPNation]

District 1 has some huge schools, but they can't get past the Philly Catholic League schools in recent years. I think it's been about 20 years since District 1 won its last title. The days of the Central Bucks West juggernauts is long gone.

You mean a private Jesuit school with rich alumni.

St Joes was a nothing burger in foosball when I was in high school. The power houses were the Diocesan high schools that had strict feeder parish boundaries.

If Downingtown was still one high school they’d be pretty formidable..both made the playoffs.

[EastStroud13]

Ridiculous. Playing schools that don't play by the same rules must be ridiculous for some of the public school coaches.

I hope they continue to make a stink about it, because it is ridiculous. Sure, every 4 years there's a public team stacked enough to stick with and/or beat St. Joe's. But there are countless more great teams that have their seasons ended by an all-star team. Mind you, an all-star team that knows full well that they should be competing beyond Pennsylvania: their schedule featured 4 PCL opponents and 5 out-of-state opponents.

I don't blame St. Joe's for maximizing their program; I blame PIAA for allowing them to compete with everyone else. Even just saying "if you're a school that isn't operated by a Pennsylvania school district, at least 75% of your schedule must be from Pennsylvania to be playoff-eligible" would be an improvement. But I don't think the issue is fully solved until non-boundary schools have their own playoff brackets. If it wasn't St. Joe's, some other school would soak up the talent. It's up to PIAA to acknowledge that.

[IUPNation]

Literally one private school won a state title this year. Imothep is a public charter school.

There were other Catholic schools in the brackets that were defeated by public high schools.

Obviously North Allegheny didn’t get out recruited by Yinzerburgh Central Catholic.

[Ship69]

Literally one private school won a state title this year. Imothep is a public charter school.

There were other Catholic schools in the brackets that were defeated by public high schools.

Obviously North Allegheny didn’t get out recruited by Yinzerburgh Central Catholic.

Oh Please. St. Joseph's Prep has now won six of the last eight big-school titles. Yeah, some in the brackets got beat this year, but a lot of them were in the brackets through expert recruiting practices. Bishop McDevitt in my district a few years back actually recruited a kid from my high school alma mater, which is several districts away and across the Susquehanna River from McDevitt. There was another Catholic high school located in the kid's public school district, so I'm sure he went to McDevitt for the Catholic education. Kid was a halfback who ended up playing extensively at Penn State — not bad. I know several HS athletic directors who'd be glad to tell you what's been done in their districts.

[IUPNation]

Oh Please. St. Joseph's Prep has now won six of the last eight big-school titles. Yeah, some in the brackets got beat this year, but a lot of them were in the brackets through expert recruiting practices. Bishop McDevitt in my district a few years back actually recruited a kid from my high school alma mater, which is several districts away and across the Susquehanna River from McDevitt. There was another Catholic high school located in the kid's public school district, so I'm sure he went to McDevitt for the Catholic education. Kid was a halfback who ended up playing extensively at Penn State — not bad. I know several HS athletic directors who'd be glad to tell you what's been done in their districts.

So? If you exclude schools than the ones included really aren't "State Champions"

It is why when they had playoffs and the Philadelphia Public and Catholic Leagues were not included...those schools that won in those years were not necessarily the best teams in the Commonwealth.

I think the fact schools from the City of Philadelphia are dominating is the problem. The Yinzers can't stand the fact the WPIAL isn't everything and winning every title.

[Bart]

The transfer portal for high school. Colleges have finally caught up, but it still doesn't help Gannon and Mercyhurst win the league.

[EyeoftheHawk]

So? If you exclude schools than the ones included really aren't "State Champions"

It is why when they had playoffs and the Philadelphia Public and Catholic Leagues were not included...those schools that won in those years were not necessarily the best teams in the Commonwealth.

I think the fact schools from the City of Philadelphia are dominating is the problem. The Yinzers can't stand the fact the WPIAL isn't everything and winning every title.

Oh, come on. It doesn’t matter what end of the state these private schools are located. NONE of them should be competing in the championships with private schools and any suggestion that they should be, and that it’s an even playing field, is ridiculous.