OT: D1

[Fightingscot82]

Literally one private school won a state title this year. Imothep is a public charter school.

There were other Catholic schools in the brackets that were defeated by public high schools.

Obviously North Allegheny didn’t get out recruited by Yinzerburgh Central Catholic.

North Allegheny doesn't recruit for the same reason models aren't on dating apps.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

North Allegheny doesn't recruit for the same reason models aren't on dating apps.

Fair point. They have a lot of kids who want to go there (and commute an hour each way to do so). Same with Pine-Richland.

It always makes me chuckle when a kid from NA or P-R gets recruited by a PSAC school and takes a visit. Their stadiums and ammenities are 100x nicer than any PSAC school. They are going from modern everything to an all-inclusive tour of the 1970s.

[Fightingscot82]

Fair point. They have a lot of kids who want to go there (and commute an hour each way to do so). Same with Pine-Richland.

It always makes me chuckle when a kid from NA or P-R gets recruited by a PSAC school and takes a visit. Their stadiums and ammenities are 100x nicer than any PSAC school. They are going from modern everything to an all-inclusive tour of the 1970s.

They're very attractive suburbs. Fox Chapel and Sewickley are wealthier but in the old money way; Mt. Lebanon and Upper St Clair are probably similarly attractive but you're stuck in the South Hills. NA and PR don't have a tunnel or a commute with lights into the city, PR is also along Route 8 if someone needs that, and as Cranberry/Mars becomes a workplace you're also right there. 20 minutes from the Wexford exit to downtown Pittsburgh without ever dealing with tunnel traffic, 28 construction, or Ohio River Boulevard lights; 20-25 minutes to the airport. There are some other exurbs also with newer developments of big houses but again, they're also in less desirable school districts or you have to take 376, 28, or 65 into the city.

[IUP24]

Oh, come on. It doesn’t matter what end of the state these private schools are located. NONE of them should be competing in the championships with private schools and any suggestion that they should be, and that it’s an even playing field, is ridiculous.

Yeah, I agree completely. I think it's important to recognize that there's differences in how some of these schools operate within athletics. Not all schools are recruiting or poaching kids on a national level. St. Joe's should be competing against the likes of IMG Academy. The manner in which they operate isn't even necessarily on the same playing field as say, Central Catholic, who is just plucking the best kids from surrounding areas. But that's neither here nor there.

[IUP24]

I think the fact schools from the City of Philadelphia are dominating is the problem. The Yinzers can't stand the fact the WPIAL isn't everything and winning every title.

I don't think that this is even remotely true whatsoever. Not even in the slightest.

I think any gripe you hear about the current landscape of anything related to high school sports in Pennsylvania is that the decision to ultimately restructure everything to six classifications hurt the competitive balance of the WPIAL and kind of ruined the "mystique" of the league in general. It watered everything down significantly. You pretty much had an equal number of highly competitive athletic programs, for all sports, in each of the four classifications. The move to six just wasn't good for the WPIAL. It didn't impact areas like District 6 or District 5 given that most of those schools were all going to remain classified as A or AA. But when you have just a handful of 6A schools and schools who are jumping back and forth between AAA, Quad A, and 5A every reclassification cycle, no structure makes sense in that league. People complain about travel and distance between schools all the time. Those issues never existed prior to the move to 6 classifications.

I don't believe for a second that was the driver behind going to six classifications, but I think many across the state, especially east of Harrisburg, were happy to put out a proposal that was likely going to negatively impact what everyone else likes to call District 7.

There's no other part of Pennsylvania where winning your district is vastly more important than winning a state championship. Most kids didn't grow up in the Pittsburgh area dreaming of playing at Hershey in December, (or now, Cumberland Valley). Every kid grew up wanting to play at Three Rivers Stadium or Heinz Field on Black Friday for a shot to win the WPIAL title.

[Fightingscot82]

What sucks about the new 6-level system is that A level football is essentially very small, financially modest communities...and small wealthier private schools. The school district next to mine plays A and the school district in financial crisis, still has a grass football field, and a couple years ago didn't know if they could find the money to replace the football field lights. My wife's hometown has maybe 35 kids a grade anymore (and shrinking) so its only a matter of time they have to co-op for football like some of the smaller schools in that conference.

Philadelphia's location makes it really easy to take kids from Delaware and New Jersey because people live in those places and work in greater Philly. My wife's cousin lives in Chadds Ford but her kids went to a private boys school in Delaware because its a lacrosse magnet. Some smaller area private schools like Bishop McDevitt in Harrisburg or Cathedral Prep in Erie is that they are one of the very few private school options in the region making them an easy way to build and attract talented kids. Rather than separate public & private, I think its VERY fair to say only PA resident students can compete for a state championship. Sure, win your conference with all the DE & NJ kids you want, but they can't play in the PIAA playoffs. This also prevents a Kennedy Catholic from bringing in every 7 foot teen they can find in eastern Europe.

My issue with Imhotep is that they're a charter school pulling from the entire city. They are a de facto All Star Team for the School District of Philadelphia outsourced to the Imhotep board. No cost barrier for a charter school vs. St. Josephs or Father Judge. Doesn't anyone find it odd that out of 190,000 students and 57 high schools, it looks like NOT ONE public high school from Philadelphia has ever played in the PIAA championship game? (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I had the same problem with Lincoln Park Performing Arts Charter High School operating out of beyond depressed Midland, PA (so poor they closed the high school & kids go to high school in Ohio), who was pulling kids from as far as a 2 hour drive to play basketball. And of the ones I personally met, there's NO WAY in hell they were doing any performing arts not called basketball. My dog was smarter. Imagine kids from Bucks County attending a specific charter school in Chester, PA.

[iupgroundhog]

I don't think that this is even remotely true whatsoever. Not even in the slightest.

I think any gripe you hear about the current landscape of anything related to high school sports in Pennsylvania is that the decision to ultimately restructure everything to six classifications hurt the competitive balance of the WPIAL and kind of ruined the "mystique" of the league in general. It watered everything down significantly. You pretty much had an equal number of highly competitive athletic programs, for all sports, in each of the four classifications. The move to six just wasn't good for the WPIAL. It didn't impact areas like District 6 or District 5 given that most of those schools were all going to remain classified as A or AA. But when you have just a handful of 6A schools and schools who are jumping back and forth between AAA, Quad A, and 5A every reclassification cycle, no structure makes sense in that league. People complain about travel and distance between schools all the time. Those issues never existed prior to the move to 6 classifications.

I don't believe for a second that was the driver behind going to six classifications, but I think many across the state, especially east of Harrisburg, were happy to put out a proposal that was likely going to negatively impact what everyone else likes to call District 7.

There's no other part of Pennsylvania where winning your district is vastly more important than winning a state championship. Most kids didn't grow up in the Pittsburgh area dreaming of playing at Hershey in December, (or now, Cumberland Valley). Every kid grew up wanting to play at Three Rivers Stadium or Heinz Field on Black Friday for a shot to win the WPIAL title.

That's an interesting rationalization.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

What sucks about the new 6-level system is that A level football is essentially very small, financially modest communities...and small wealthier private schools. The school district next to mine plays A and the school district in financial crisis, still has a grass football field, and a couple years ago didn't know if they could find the money to replace the football field lights. My wife's hometown has maybe 35 kids a grade anymore (and shrinking) so its only a matter of time they have to co-op for football like some of the smaller schools in that conference.

Philadelphia's location makes it really easy to take kids from Delaware and New Jersey because people live in those places and work in greater Philly. My wife's cousin lives in Chadds Ford but her kids went to a private boys school in Delaware because its a lacrosse magnet. Some smaller area private schools like Bishop McDevitt in Harrisburg or Cathedral Prep in Erie is that they are one of the very few private school options in the region making them an easy way to build and attract talented kids. Rather than separate public & private, I think its VERY fair to say only PA resident students can compete for a state championship. Sure, win your conference with all the DE & NJ kids you want, but they can't play in the PIAA playoffs. This also prevents a Kennedy Catholic from bringing in every 7 foot teen they can find in eastern Europe.

My issue with Imhotep is that they're a charter school pulling from the entire city. They are a de facto All Star Team for the School District of Philadelphia outsourced to the Imhotep board. No cost barrier for a charter school vs. St. Josephs or Father Judge. Doesn't anyone find it odd that out of 190,000 students and 57 high schools, it looks like NOT ONE public high school from Philadelphia has ever played in the PIAA championship game? (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I had the same problem with Lincoln Park Performing Arts Charter High School operating out of beyond depressed Midland, PA (so poor they closed the high school & kids go to high school in Ohio), who was pulling kids from as far as a 2 hour drive to play basketball. And of the ones I personally met, there's NO WAY in hell they were doing any performing arts not called basketball. My dog was smarter. Imagine kids from Bucks County attending a specific charter school in Chester, PA.

Lincoln Park is hilarious. It's insanity.

[Fightingscot82]

Lincoln Park is hilarious. It's insanity.

WPIAL basketball star Elijah Minnie lived in Monessen, 3 counties or 75 miles away from Midland. There's NO WAY IN HELL he made that drive twice each day. They also were a financial racket for those running it. I believe several were indicted for misspending the money coming in.

[IUP24]

That's an interesting rationalization.

What specifically?

That going to 6 classifications watered down the WPIAL? Because it did. Plenty of coaches are on record talking about the competitive balance having been greatly impacted by it. That’s not just my opinion. It worked well for many districts, but not for the WPIAL.

Or that kids in the Pittsburgh area care more about playing at Heinz Field than winning the state championship at Cumberland Valley? Because the mystique and fantasies aren’t about winning state in Western PA, the stories passed down and told between generations are about playing for a WPIAL Championship.

I’m not entirely sure what’s “interesting” in that.

[Fightingscot82]

What specifically?

That going to 6 classifications watered down the WPIAL? Because it did. Plenty of coaches are on record talking about the competitive balance having been greatly impacted by it. That’s not just my opinion. It worked well for many districts, but not for the WPIAL.

Or that kids in the Pittsburgh area care more about playing at Heinz Field than winning the state championship at Cumberland Valley? Because the mystique and fantasies aren’t about winning state in Western PA, the stories passed down and told between generations are about playing for a WPIAL Championship.

I’m not entirely sure what’s “interesting” in that.

I'm not sure that it watered it down as much as it disrupted longstanding rivalries and conferences. The old WPIAL AAA and AAAA were great. The Quad North Conference of Butler, Fox Chapel, North Allegheny, North Hills, Seneca Valley, and Shaler had history and geography that made it so fun. Now it's all ripped up. Unfortunately it's also time to disband District 8 and work the Pittsburgh schools into the WPIAL.

[iupgroundhog]

What specifically?

That going to 6 classifications watered down the WPIAL? Because it did. Plenty of coaches are on record talking about the competitive balance having been greatly impacted by it. That’s not just my opinion. It worked well for many districts, but not for the WPIAL.

Or that kids in the Pittsburgh area care more about playing at Heinz Field than winning the state championship at Cumberland Valley? Because the mystique and fantasies aren’t about winning state in Western PA, the stories passed down and told between generations are about playing for a WPIAL Championship.

I’m not entirely sure what’s “interesting” in that.

I don't really follow the WPIAL or even PA HS football but I thought the topic was about why the WPIAL isn't as prominent as it once was. I think that is a result of other factors, not the classification system. Nor do I think that, in reference to your above point, that there is some east of Harrisburg conspiracy to hurt the WPIAL. Also, your comments about the WPIAL being more important than state championships fits with the parochial nature of Western PA., IMO.

[IUPNation]

Oh, come on. It doesn’t matter what end of the state these private schools are located. NONE of them should be competing in the championships with private schools and any suggestion that they should be, and that it’s an even playing field, is ridiculous.

Sorry most 6A public schools are in wealthy suburban areas. They have resources that poor inner city and poor rural schools don’t have…

North Allegheny plays in a stadium that is better than every Pee Sack school’s stadium.

Again I went to a Catholic High School that got pummeled every year by the public school.

St Joe’s was a nobody in the PCL for years..the diocese owned schools were the powerhouses. Thry just got their act together. You mean rich public schools can’t beat a private school in the middle on lower income North Philly?

[EastStroud13]

My issue with Imhotep is that they're a charter school pulling from the entire city. They are a de facto All Star Team for the School District of Philadelphia outsourced to the Imhotep board. No cost barrier for a charter school vs. St. Josephs or Father Judge. Doesn't anyone find it odd that out of 190,000 students and 57 high schools, it looks like NOT ONE public high school from Philadelphia has ever played in the PIAA championship game? (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I had the same problem with Lincoln Park Performing Arts Charter High School operating out of beyond depressed Midland, PA (so poor they closed the high school & kids go to high school in Ohio), who was pulling kids from as far as a 2 hour drive to play basketball. And of the ones I personally met, there's NO WAY in hell they were doing any performing arts not called basketball. My dog was smarter. Imagine kids from Bucks County attending a specific charter school in Chester, PA.

To me, the line is clear. Are you operated by a Pennsylvania school district? Congrats, I consider you a boundary school for the purposes of athletics. Charter schools like Imhotep that aren't operated by a District play by different rules, and it's silly to pretend that they don't.

[EastStroud13]

I'm not sure that it watered it down as much as it disrupted longstanding rivalries and conferences. The old WPIAL AAA and AAAA were great. The Quad North Conference of Butler, Fox Chapel, North Allegheny, North Hills, Seneca Valley, and Shaler had history and geography that made it so fun. Now it's all ripped up. Unfortunately it's also time to disband District 8 and work the Pittsburgh schools into the WPIAL.

It has nothing to do with the classifications. It's the WPIAL's rigidity to only having one-class divisions that causes a lot of the issues. There's nothing stopping them from making divisions that make more geographic sense, but they self-impose the restriction that all teams within each division have to be the same class. There are plenty of conferences out east that have teams from multiple classifications and it works just fine, not sure why the WPIAL has to pretend it's special. And the PIAA sure doesn't have to consider what the WPIAL wants when it sets its classifications, either.