Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[vikingfaithful]

biggest thing is Mankato and Augie have bigger budgets not just scholarships

AU budget is strained I believe with Hockey program expenses. If there was plenty of money around they'd put a bubble up over track and football practice spot like they promised 3 years ago.

[MrMustang]

AU budget is strained I believe with Hockey program expenses. If there was plenty of money around they'd put a bubble up over track and football practice spot like they promised 3 years ago.

Nice to know Augie is broke like SMSU

[debergfan]

Nice to know Augie is broke like SMSU

I think Minnesota and Mississippi have a similar issue in that there are a large number of colleges. With more flexible admission criteria for four-year schools that are almost on par with those of junior colleges, it may be worth considering consolidating some colleges in both Minnesota and Mississippi in an effort to improve efficiency and reduce costs. BSU and Northwest Tech, Mankato and South Central, Winona and Southeast

[Augieholic]

AU budget is strained I believe with Hockey program expenses. If there was plenty of money around they'd put a bubble up over track and football practice spot like they promised 3 years ago.

A bubble over the track and football practice spot would be nice but just because it hasn't been built, yet, one shouldn't infer that Augie is in any sort of financial peril. I get a good chuckle every time someone shares that Augie got into the hockey venture without any understanding of the costs. Augie's AD Josh Morton was at North Dakota before Michigan St so I'm reasonably confident he has a good handle on what it takes to run a successful athletic department that includes hockey.

[SW_Mustang]

I think Minnesota and Mississippi have a similar issue in that there are a large number of colleges. With more flexible admission criteria for four-year schools that are almost on par with those of junior colleges, it may be worth considering consolidating some colleges in both Minnesota and Mississippi in an effort to improve efficiency and reduce costs. BSU and Northwest Tech, Mankato and South Central, Winona and Southeast

Northwest Tech used to share a president with BSU. Still probably do.

There used to be many more independent JUCOs. They've slowly been consolidating over the years. Minnesota West is one example and the conglomerate in northeastern MN is the latest.

The big consolidation I want to see is Morris and Crookston. Or take those two and combine with UMR and WSU-R to create one institution in Rochester. Would make much more sense than the hodgepodge in Rochester right now anyway.

[zimmy21]

This is about more than basketball.

Well damn, I guess we'll all have to schedule those Jimmies next year in all sports, they don't need to worry about playing the NSAA schedule. The D2 independent route would be just fine with all the games they could schedule the NSIC schools in.

[Millsy]

Bemidji and Northwest Tech do share administrations

[WPHB]

I think Minnesota and Mississippi have a similar issue in that there are a large number of colleges. With more flexible admission criteria for four-year schools that are almost on par with those of junior colleges, it may be worth considering consolidating some colleges in both Minnesota and Mississippi in an effort to improve efficiency and reduce costs.

As an outsider (to both the Midwest and Mississippi), it appears that there is a large number of higher education platforms in Minnesota, South Dakota, North Dakota, Nebraska, and Montana. To me, anything after high school is higher ed regardless of classification or affiliation, so JUCOs, Community Colleges, NAIA, D3, D2, and FCS are all higher ed. Seems like the schools outpaced the population, especially if schools are sharing administrations, resources, and locations.

So my question then becomes, is there the necessary population to support that many higher education institutions? Is there an enrollment base to justify keeping so many schools?

[laker]

As an outsider (to both the Midwest and Mississippi), it appears that there is a large number of higher education platforms in Minnesota, South Dakota, North Dakota, Nebraska, and Montana. To me, anything after high school is higher ed regardless of classification or affiliation, so JUCOs, Community Colleges, NAIA, D3, D2, and FCS are all higher ed. Seems like the schools outpaced the population, especially if schools are sharing administrations, resources, and locations.

So my question then becomes, is there the necessary population to support that many higher education institutions? Is there an enrollment base to justify keeping so many schools?

The answer is no. Years ago the HS counselor who I worked with said the plan was to draw a 35 mile circle and have some kind of post secondary institution serving that area of MN. Of course that isn't practical in the northern part of the state but if you took a map and drew the circle you can see how close that became. Some of course were technical branches. UM-Waseca started in 1971 and closed around 20 years later. Crookston really wasn't needed as a four year school, etc, etc. Things were overbuilt. But the political opposition to closing them prevents much from getting done. I could probably give examples of the other states- like Mayville in ND being midway between Fargo and Grand Forks- but I'll let those citizens deal with those states.

[SW_Mustang]

The answer is no. Years ago the HS counselor who I worked with said the plan was to draw a 35 mile circle and have some kind of post secondary institution serving that area of MN. Of course that isn't practical in the northern part of the state but if you took a map and drew the circle you can see how close that became. Some of course were technical branches. UM-Waseca started in 1971 and closed around 20 years later. Crookston really wasn't needed as a four year school, etc, etc. Things were overbuilt. But the political opposition to closing them prevents much from getting done. I could probably give examples of the other states- like Mayville in ND being midway between Fargo and Grand Forks- but I'll let those citizens deal with those states.

I was curious once and so I looked into it - and there are over 100 physical locations in Minnesota where someone can get a degree. This includes public and private not-for-profit. I'm sure I missed a few too. This does not include access to online education, private for-profits, and co-op programs between 2-year and 4-year schools.

It's way too much. To add to the madness, none of them really specialize in anything like the South Dakota schools do (gasp, I said something positive about South Dakota).

IMO, we're spread so thin on public higher ed that if we pooled resources, we could likely have a proper secondary R1 in the MnSCU system like a lot of other states have.

[zimmy21]

I was curious once and so I looked into it - and there are over 100 physical locations in Minnesota where someone can get a degree. This includes public and private not-for-profit. I'm sure I missed a few too. This does not include access to online education, private for-profits, and co-op programs between 2-year and 4-year schools.

It's way too much. To add to the madness, none of them really specialize in anything like the South Dakota schools do (gasp, I said something positive about South Dakota).

IMO, we're spread so thin on public higher ed that if we pooled resources, we could likely have a proper secondary R1 in the MnSCU system like a lot of other states have.

The population in 2020 for people in MN between 18-24 was 499,000. I'll grant you that not every kid will go to school after high school, or they will leave the state for education but with 100 physical locations for school that is still plenty of students per school. I would not say we are saturated whatsoever.

[SW_Mustang]

The population in 2020 for people in MN between 18-24 was 499,000. I'll grant you that not every kid will go to school after high school, or they will leave the state for education but with 100 physical locations for school that is still plenty of students per school. I would not say we are saturated whatsoever.

Declining enrollments across the board suggest otherwise.

Does SWMN really need 6+ community college campuses for the population they have? I know for a fact Granite is hanging on by a thread. Minnesota North became a thing in an attempt to save the schools in that area.

Bemidji alone has three colleges.

Imagine what MSU would be if we weren't spending so much money on branch campuses and satellite centers. Not to mention the U of M sticking two campuses in the middle of nowhere where two colleges don't need to be in the first place.

[zimmy21]

Declining enrollments across the board suggest otherwise.

Does SWMN really need 6+ community college campuses for the population they have? I know for a fact Granite is hanging on by a thread. Minnesota North became a thing in an attempt to save the schools in that area.

Bemidji alone has three colleges.

Imagine what MSU would be if we weren't spending so much money on branch campuses and satellite centers. Not to mention the U of M sticking two campuses in the middle of nowhere where two colleges don't need to be in the first place.

It's about resource allocation. School placement isn't great, more should be in the suburbs around MSP. You have to have some regional schools as well. If the state wanted to shut down St. Cloud we'd all be better off.

[Stanger86]

Declining enrollments across the board suggest otherwise.

Does SWMN really need 6+ community college campuses for the population they have? I know for a fact Granite is hanging on by a thread. Minnesota North became a thing in an attempt to save the schools in that area.

Bemidji alone has three colleges.

Imagine what MSU would be if we weren't spending so much money on branch campuses and satellite centers. Not to mention the U of M sticking two campuses in the middle of nowhere where two colleges don't need to be in the first place.

So I understand the idea of creating options close to home for people, whether it be Crookston, Granite Falls or Bemidji. The interesting dynamic comes into play when you bring sports into the equation, and you are recruiting kids from across the country. Those dynamics affect things in many ways.

[SW_Mustang]

So I understand the idea of creating options close to home for people, whether it be Crookston, Granite Falls or Bemidji. The interesting dynamic comes into play when you bring sports into the equation, and you are recruiting kids from across the country. Those dynamics affect things in many ways.

And yet, Minnesota West seems to continually have issues drawing people "close" to them, as is an issue that plagues SMSU. Crookston is "close" to Fargo-Moorhead which is likely causing them issues too. To be fair to Bemidji, BSU and NWTC share administrations (as mentioned) so I've always thought of NWTC as the two-year arm of BSU. Oak Hills is just sort of "there."

I just think the idea of having a campus in every other little town is a little overblown, especially when one considers how many private options there are in MN.

But I digress. I'm not going to be the one to play God with the higher ed landscape in Minnesota, and as an alumni of a school under constant discussion of closing, I don't want to be the one to take someone's alma mater away from them.

Agreed on the sports part of it.