Should Jamestown be accepted into the NSIC?

[CheapSkate]

To counter, it used to be that no sport at UMC was successful. However, in the last decade or so, a few programs there have shown that success is possible within Division II. So I don't consider them a complete lost cause. It just takes a lot of work.

Nope, they ARE a complete lost cause. First off, we are really reaching if 'success' in Division II is merely finishing in the top half of the conference standings. One golf title over 20 years ago is the only conference championship UMC has won as a DII school. Otherwise they have been putrid in all sports. They are so bad that when basketball starts simply *making* the conference tournament people are excited.

And to use baseball as the great hope for the school is a fools errand. Once the coach leaves they will drop again. They have won some games, but still have yet to make the Regional tournament, win the conference or even make the NSIC tournament championship game. So if a couple 20-win baseball campaigns are all the entire athletic department has to show of 'success' in DII ... then shut. the. thing. down.

[SW_Mustang]

In that regard I fully agree with you, just as I would prefer Morningside, Northwestern IA. or Grand Valley over St. Cloud. I would trade SCSU with UIU- at least the Peacocks have a football team!

The irony of MSU fans arguing through gritted teeth against Jamestown joining DII, then ignoring that exact same logic about MSU going DI is not lost on me.

Agreed. I don't want SCSU around either. People can say what they want about the results, but Jamestown is at least committed to having a football team - which is something that can't be said for two NSIC programs.

[SW_Mustang]

Nope, they ARE a complete lost cause. First off, we are really reaching if 'success' in Division II is merely finishing in the top half of the conference standings. One golf title over 20 years ago is the only conference championship UMC has won as a DII school. Otherwise they have been putrid in all sports. They are so bad that when basketball starts simply *making* the conference tournament people are excited.

And to use baseball as the great hope for the school is a fools errand. Once the coach leaves they will drop again. They have won some games, but still have yet to make the Regional tournament, win the conference or even make the NSIC tournament championship game. So if a couple 20-win baseball campaigns are all the entire athletic department has to show of 'success' in DII ... then shut. the. thing. down.

I'm not sure if the baseball comments are in response to me or not - but I am aware that the recent success is thanks to the coaching staff operating in spite of the school and not because of it. And they aren't going to compete with SCSU/MSU/Augie on the baseball front. I was looking at it in a vacuum and giving them the smallest amount of credit where it is due.

I will say that coaching staff has had a great run with player development over the last several years. Not on the same level as CSP or Augie, but definitely in the top half of the NSIC. But again that's because of the coaches and not the school. Once those guys depart, I can't imagine it's going to continue.

[Stanger86]

And to use baseball as the great hope for the school is a fools errand. Once the coach leaves they will drop again. They have won some games, but still have yet to make the Regional tournament, win the conference or even make the NSIC tournament championship game. So if a couple 20-win baseball campaigns are all the entire athletic department has to show of 'success' in DII ... then shut. the. thing. down.

Maybe. Maybe not. years ago, I'm sure people expected the same when Tim Miles left SMSU for North Dakota State. And the first three years, some might say they were proven correct as the Mustangs went from 28 wins in Miles' last year to 21 to 17 to 12. Shut it down? What had SMSU really done in Division II to that point as an entire athletics department? Football was nothing, volleyball hadn't done much yet, baseball and WBB ironically were probably the only programs of note at that point.

[laker]

Nope, they ARE a complete lost cause. First off, we are really reaching if 'success' in Division II is merely finishing in the top half of the conference standings. One golf title over 20 years ago is the only conference championship UMC has won as a DII school. Otherwise they have been putrid in all sports. They are so bad that when basketball starts simply *making* the conference tournament people are excited.

And to use baseball as the great hope for the school is a fools errand. Once the coach leaves they will drop again. They have won some games, but still have yet to make the Regional tournament, win the conference or even make the NSIC tournament championship game. So if a couple 20-win baseball campaigns are all the entire athletic department has to show of 'success' in DII ... then shut. the. thing. down.

Is there any serious talk about D3 and the UMAC like Morris did?

[Purple Mav Man]

I'm really trying to stay away from going down these rabbit holes that make up roughly 100 of the 126 pages of this thread, but I think comments like this are why some people have the perception that segments of MSU fans think they are too good for Division II. There's an attitude coming through these comments that says you don't think they deserve to be at the same level as mighty Mankato. I think this same attitude is a big reason why the Dakota States moved up to FCS in the first place, and I think we're seeing that attitude seep into Mankato more and more as well.

I am well aware that UM-Crookston is one of the least funded and most poorly run athletic departments in Division II. But for whatever reason, they have chosen to stay at the Division II level because they feel it's what's best for them as a university. Rather than tearing them down because you feel like they don't belong or tearing down that region of the state as a whole, why not look for ways that they can enhance and improve their program standing within Division II?

What if the comment had come from a fan of a different school? Would a fan of SMSU who thinks Crookston is out of place be too good for D2? I think your bias and whatever else toward/against MSU shows through often. And it did in this reply.

I’d guess the vast majority of fans on this board think Crookston is out of place. We can all think that if we want. And Crookston can stay in the NSIC/D2 if they want, as you say. Some people want to boot them. I am saying they are a high school (not just athletics-wise) masquerading as a 4-year university. Even the Crookston alum we’re fortunate to have on the board is able to be honest and real about.

[Purple Mav Man]

The irony of MSU fans arguing through gritted teeth against Jamestown joining DII, then ignoring that exact same logic about MSU going DI is not lost on me.

Agreed. I don't want SCSU around either. People can say what they want about the results, but Jamestown is at least committed to having a football team - which is something that can't be said for two NSIC programs.

I am guessing your first part is directed towards me. Jamestown can be D2 all they want. The question is whether they belong in the NSIC? Geographically, of course. No irony, just a misunderstanding.

[Stanger86]

What if the comment had come from a fan of a different school? Would a fan of SMSU who thinks Crookston is out of place be too good for D2? I think your bias and whatever else toward/against MSU shows through often. And it did in this reply.

I’d guess the vast majority of fans on this board think Crookston is out of place. We can all think that if we want. And Crookston can stay in the NSIC/D2 if they want, as you say. Some people want to boot them. I am saying they are a high school (not just athletics-wise) masquerading as a 4-year university. Even the Crookston alum were fortunate to have on the board is able to be honest and real about.

Fair point. It's just felt to me at times (maybe out of place) that multiple MSU fans have done a lot of grumbling over membership ever since joining the NSIC.

[SW_Mustang]

I am guessing your first part is directed towards me. Jamestown can be D2 all they want. The question is whether they belong in the NSIC? Geographically, of course. No irony, just a misunderstanding.

No, actually. I was not responding to you.

But my point is MSU would offer DI the equivalent of what UJ offers DII. The irony is some don't see that and are okay with the former and not the latter given how similar the moves are.

Some could say it's an apples-to-oranges comparison because MSU at least is one of the better DII schools, but their impact on DI will be similar to UJ's impact on DII.

And for the record - I'm not thrilled about UJ joining DII. I'd rather have them than Crookston, but there are 10 other schools I'd rather have than them.

[Purple Mav Man]

No, actually. I was not responding to you.

But my point is MSU would offer DI the equivalent of what UJ offers DII. The irony is some don't see that and are okay with the former and not the latter given how similar the moves are.

Some could say it's an apples-to-oranges comparison because MSU at least is one of the better DII schools, but their impact on DI will be similar to UJ's impact on DII.

And for the record - I'm not thrilled about UJ joining DII. I'd rather have them than Crookston, but there are 10 other schools I'd rather have than them.

Always hard to tell through writing. Makes sense, I’m one of the MSU fans that understands what the Mavs would be at the next level. Mediocre at best, and that doesn’t sound like a ton of fun.

[Millsy]

What if the comment had come from a fan of a different school? Would a fan of SMSU who thinks Crookston is out of place be too good for D2? I think your bias and whatever else toward/against MSU shows through often. And it did in this reply.

I’d guess the vast majority of fans on this board think Crookston is out of place. We can all think that if we want. And Crookston can stay in the NSIC/D2 if they want, as you say. Some people want to boot them. I am saying they are a high school (not just athletics-wise) masquerading as a 4-year university. Even the Crookston alum we’re fortunate to have on the board is able to be honest and real about.

I think your angst about Crookston being a four year school is geared towards the wrong people. I think your angst needs to be focused on the University of Minnesota Board of Regents and not the Crookston administration. When Crookston went from a two year school to a four year school, it was because the MN Board of Regents wanted a four year school in all corners of the State to serve the population of the State. They had Rochester, Morris and Duluth, elevating Crookston gave them that school in the Northwest. And one needs to remember, when you graduate from any of the U of MN schools, your diploma says University of Minnesota, not University of Minnesota at "insert city here". That does have some pull in the job market.

Now, that still doesn't help out the Crookston athletic programs.

[Purple Mav Man]

Fair point. It's just felt to me at times (maybe out of place) that multiple MSU fans have done a lot of grumbling over membership ever since joining the NSIC.

Regarding other schools? I guess I haven’t seen the same. Certainly many feel Crookston doesn’t belong, but as you’ve seen through the years, that is definitely not exclusive to MSU fans.

And of course now with Jamestown, but again, that is not exclusive to MSU fans. Seems you’re wanting that to be the case more than it really is?

Zimmy wants the Mavs to go D1, but not because he thinks MSU is better than the rest of the conference. From what I can gather, he just wants a D1 school to root for. Not looking down on other schools.

SuperCal shows up every once in a while and promotes a D1 move, but not because of the conference teams, or to bash them.

njmav1 would like to protect the hockey team with a potential D1 move.

Those are the 3 MSU fans on here that I can recall pumping D1. None of them are doing it because they think MSU is too good for the conference or the other schools. That part is made up.

[Purple Mav Man]

I think your angst about Crookston being a four year school is geared towards the wrong people. I think your angst needs to be focused on the University of Minnesota Board of Regents and not the Crookston administration. When Crookston went from a two year school to a four year school, it was because the MN Board of Regents wanted a four year school in all corners of the State to serve the population of the State. They had Rochester, Morris and Duluth, elevating Crookston gave them that school in the Northwest. And one needs to remember, when you graduate from any of the U of MN schools, your diploma says University of Minnesota, not University of Minnesota at "insert city here". That does have some pull in the job market.

Now, that still doesn't help out the Crookston athletic programs.

I definitely understand the political play that made Crookston a 4 year university. The sell job was what you mentioned above.

But you really don’t think Stanger can change Crookston back???

[SW_Mustang]

Always hard to tell through writing. Makes sense, I’m one of the MSU fans that understands what the Mavs would be at the next level. Mediocre at best, and that doesn’t sound like a ton of fun.

Right. You're not one of the ones on here that's super vocal about leaving - apologies for the confusion.

I really enjoyed my time at MSU and the sports was a big part of why - which is probably why I don't want to see them go.

And everyone is entitled to their opinion, obviously. Discussing opinions is fun though!

[SW_Mustang]

I think your angst about Crookston being a four year school is geared towards the wrong people. I think your angst needs to be focused on the University of Minnesota Board of Regents and not the Crookston administration. When Crookston went from a two year school to a four year school, it was because the MN Board of Regents wanted a four year school in all corners of the State to serve the population of the State. They had Rochester, Morris and Duluth, elevating Crookston gave them that school in the Northwest. And one needs to remember, when you graduate from any of the U of MN schools, your diploma says University of Minnesota, not University of Minnesota at "insert city here". That does have some pull in the job market.

Now, that still doesn't help out the Crookston athletic programs.

Minor point, but Crookston had Rochester beat by about 13 years. This is just me, but I also happen to believe Rochester was also a play to dump U of M alums into the Mayo system. Maybe they planted a seed to have a full university in SE MN, but it hasn't yet played out that way.