OT: D1

[IUP24]

Not a calm morning down in Clemson.

Fans want Dabo out after being humiliated by Duke on national television.

Duke's a good team. Mike Elko is a good coach, and the hype they received in the offseason is, for now at least, real. They are fast and aggressive defensively. I'm not entirely sold on Leonard as a pure QB, but he's a gamer and a real athlete at the position. Duke winning that game is good for the ACC. It shows there's other good teams/programs in the conference. The ACC had a fantastic opening weekend.

Florida State ripped up LSU. UNC beat an SEC team that many thought would finish 2nd or 3rd in the SEC East. I don't like comparing conference to conference. All leagues are mostly the same with the exception of a handful of teams. But given the narrative many like to push, showing you have other teams aside from just the one everybody talks about is good.

[Chuck Norris]

No doubt. That was the one weakness of it. Most of the key 'bad boys' of the era didn't talk (one is obviously no longer with us in Aaron Hernandez). Not having the Pouncey brothers or Percy Harvin interviewed was a downer.

I did think the behind-the-scenes actual football stuff was fantastic. But, yes, that could have certainly been R-rated. I did read that most of the players (and Urban) only agreed to be interviewed if the topic stayed mostly about football.

It was amazing just to visually see how much Urban aged in those five years. I thought Dan Mullen (then OC) stole the show. I always thought he was kind of a boring personality. He turned out to be the complete opposite. It was interesting to see how the players all got sick of the Tebow worship within the national media.

Yeah, I love the behind the scenes stuff like this, Hard Knocks etc. It’s always funny to see the coaches who look fairly easy going on tv dropping constant f-bombs and acting like lunatics at practice.

I did get a laugh out of Urban talking about his dad and sister being in the military and how much he admired the lifestyle. Of course he didn’t love it enough to enlist himself, he just used it to put college kids through hell. I’m sure that’s a major reason he was a total disaster in the NFL. If you’re gonna treat grown men that way you better have at least walked the walk to some extent (i.e. Tom Coughlin) or they’ll laugh you out of the league.

[IUP24]

No doubt. That was the one weakness of it. Most of the key 'bad boys' of the era didn't talk (one is obviously no longer with us in Aaron Hernandez). Not having the Pouncey brothers or Percy Harvin interviewed was a downer.

I did think the behind-the-scenes actual football stuff was fantastic. But, yes, that could have certainly been R-rated. I did read that most of the players (and Urban) only agreed to be interviewed if the topic stayed mostly about football.

It was amazing just to visually see how much Urban aged in those five years. I thought Dan Mullen (then OC) stole the show. I always thought he was kind of a boring personality. He turned out to be the complete opposite. It was interesting to see how the players all got sick of the Tebow worship within the national media.

There was a ton that documentary got wrong. The football stuff was tremendous as you said. But the other stuff, not so much. The story that Urban said about how he discovered Tebow and how they recruited him and how he committed was total fabrication. The real story is available. A guy on the staff knew of Tebow and convinced Urban to land him. Tebow hated Dan Mullen, which funny enough, had a lot to do with why he committed there.

They also don't show the aftermath of how Gainesville views him. Sure, he won two titles. I used to travel to Gainesville for work. Those people there absolutely hate him. It's funny because in Columbus, that guy walks on water (all because he never lost to Michigan). He won two titles down there, in the heart of the "football south," and those people hate him for what many of his players did in town while on campus.

Chris Rainey was given a sentimental slot on camera. They failed to share the time he sent his girlfriend a text reading "time to die."

I liked the documentary. I think any football stuff like that is great. But there were a ton of holes in the story. It was basically a PR piece for Urban.

[IUP24]

It's going to get tougher for some of these big boys now that other teams can pay players just as they've been doing in the south for years.

I think Clemson's big issue is that they haven't adapted well to the transfer portal world. Dabo has been pretty staunch in his displeasure about the transient nature of college football. I get it. I hate it too, but he's paid to coach and win. Not make or decide the rules.

It certainly also helps having a 10 year run where you have Tajh Boyd, Deshaun Watson, and Trevor Lawrence all as your starting QBs with elite playmakers on the outside. Those three QBs were all elite, and they were also built to play in the style of offense that Dabo likes to run. DJU wasn't the guy for that system. Cade Klubnik can be good, but he's not Boyd, Watson, or Lawrence. And the best weapon Clemson has had since the 2020 season is the oft-injured Justyn Ross.

I like Dabo. Always have. I commend him for sticking to his guns and being loyal to "his guys." But... You've seen the result. There was a very, very short window where Saban was also vehemently against the portal. His teams looked pedestrian (by his standards) for a short second. Then he realized he had to change his approach to remain at the top of the mountain. All that said, I do believe that some schools in the ACC have gotten stronger and have caught up (somewhat) to Clemson. And when things like that happen, it's good for college football. Balance and parity is important.

Taking a 10,000 ft view... Clemson's now lost 3 of their last 4 games.

[ctrabs74]

Not a calm morning down in Clemson.

Fans want Dabo out after being humiliated by Duke on national television.

Ohio State fans have been clamoring to fire Ryan Day all off-season after back-to-back losses against Michigan, despite the overall record as head coach.

[Ship69]

I think Clemson's big issue is that they haven't adapted well to the transfer portal world. Dabo has been pretty staunch in his displeasure about the transient nature of college football. I get it. I hate it too, but he's paid to coach and win. Not make or decide the rules.

It certainly also helps having a 10 year run where you have Tajh Boyd, Deshaun Watson, and Trevor Lawrence all as your starting QBs with elite playmakers on the outside. Those three QBs were all elite, and they were also built to play in the style of offense that Dabo likes to run. DJU wasn't the guy for that system. Cade Klubnik can be good, but he's not Boyd, Watson, or Lawrence. And the best weapon Clemson has had since the 2020 season is the oft-injured Justyn Ross.

I like Dabo. Always have. I commend him for sticking to his guns and being loyal to "his guys." But... You've seen the result. There was a very, very short window where Saban was also vehemently against the portal. His teams looked pedestrian (by his standards) for a short second. Then he realized he had to change his approach to remain at the top of the mountain. All that said, I do believe that some schools in the ACC have gotten stronger and have caught up (somewhat) to Clemson. And when things like that happen, it's good for college football. Balance and parity is important.

Taking a 10,000 ft view... Clemson's now lost 3 of their last 4 games.

Biggest adjustment I ever saw at Alabama was when Bear Bryant decided he'd better recruit some black players after an integrated USC team kicked his butt in a bowl game. I often think of that when I watch modern-day Alabama teams, which are usually about 90 percent or more black players. Bear was king of Alabama at the time and probably the only guy who could have made that change without causing a riot.

[IUP24]

Yeah, I love the behind the scenes stuff like this, Hard Knocks etc. It’s always funny to see the coaches who look fairly easy going on tv dropping constant f-bombs and acting like lunatics at practice.

I did get a laugh out of Urban talking about his dad and sister being in the military and how much he admired the lifestyle. Of course he didn’t love it enough to enlist himself, he just used it to put college kids through hell. I’m sure that’s a major reason he was a total disaster in the NFL. If you’re gonna treat grown men that way you better have at least walked the walk to some extent (i.e. Tom Coughlin) or they’ll laugh you out of the league.

The reason MOST of these college coaches fail in the NFL is because they no longer have the competitive advantage that existed for them in college. Think about what these guys have the ability to do at that level:

- Manipulate class schedules for players to control much of their day/time
- Have staff assigned to monitoring and controlling their social media
- Have staff assigned to "check in" and "visit" players while they are home and away from football to prevent legal issues
- Load up their staff with former head coaches and NFL assistants who simply watch film, consult, and assist with coaching through the week, but never coach on gameday
- Total authority to overhaul roster annually (transfer portal, recuirting, etc.)
- At the elite schools, they have the resources to recruit and mostly guarantee they are always getting the best players.
- Scheduling advantages.. They can schedule neutral site games to avoid playing on the road. They can schedule "buy a win" games to pad their record.
- Total control and authority over a player's life while they are on campus

None of that stuff exists in NFL football. There's built in parity. There's the league manipulating your schedule to make it hard to remain good. There's a salary cap. There's a cap on coaches. There's no recruiting. There's no "additional resources because (insert blue blood school here) has a cult fanbase. Everyone, mostly, is an equal in that league. And the coaches who won because they had control and the resources to be successful, that normally never translates.

Reality is that the players need the coach in college to reach the NFL. Once they are in the NFL, and it's their profession, they no longer need the coach. Urban Meyer couldn't come into Jacksonville and run guys through Guerilla Warfare drills in hopes of getting people to quit. And if he did that, they would find a way to make sure they got rid of him. It's a totally different game in the pros.

[IUP24]

Ohio State fans have been clamoring to fire Ryan Day all off-season after back-to-back losses against Michigan, despite the overall record as head coach.

I live in Columbus.

People in Columbus hate Ryan Day. All because he's lost twice to Michigan. If you think it's a small and vocal minority, it's not. He's a far better human being than Urban Meyer, but all those people care about is beating Michigan. Meyer was in a great situation where his program was clearly better than Michigan during his tenure. It took Harbaugh a long, long time to get that train on the tracks. But it's on the tracks now. Meyer also spent so much effort and energy playing to the crowd and fanbase pertaining to the rivalry. He could do that because outside of probably one season, there wasn't much doubt about who was going to win that game. I like when coaches don't just hand to you canned quotes, but Meyer tried way too hard to be a fan when he would talk about Michigan.

You hear Day try to say thinks in the media and take shots across the bow at Michigan and it frankly just doesn't work for him. He's in a different situation than Meyer was. The two programs now are playing on the same field. Ryan Day would be far better off just being who he is.

[Fightingscot82]

I think Clemson's big issue is that they haven't adapted well to the transfer portal world. Dabo has been pretty staunch in his displeasure about the transient nature of college football. I get it. I hate it too, but he's paid to coach and win. Not make or decide the rules.

It certainly also helps having a 10 year run where you have Tajh Boyd, Deshaun Watson, and Trevor Lawrence all as your starting QBs with elite playmakers on the outside. Those three QBs were all elite, and they were also built to play in the style of offense that Dabo likes to run. DJU wasn't the guy for that system. Cade Klubnik can be good, but he's not Boyd, Watson, or Lawrence. And the best weapon Clemson has had since the 2020 season is the oft-injured Justyn Ross.

I like Dabo. Always have. I commend him for sticking to his guns and being loyal to "his guys." But... You've seen the result. There was a very, very short window where Saban was also vehemently against the portal. His teams looked pedestrian (by his standards) for a short second. Then he realized he had to change his approach to remain at the top of the mountain. All that said, I do believe that some schools in the ACC have gotten stronger and have caught up (somewhat) to Clemson. And when things like that happen, it's good for college football. Balance and parity is important.

Taking a 10,000 ft view... Clemson's now lost 3 of their last 4 games.

I believe he's also resisted the NLI sweepstakes.

[IUP24]

I believe he's also resisted the NLI sweepstakes.

He most definitely has. That hasn't stopped Clemson though from building a massive new building that's specifically dedicated to NIL and allowing student athletes to "brand" themselves. Basically they built an entire facility that will allow athletes to get fancy/professional pictures taken that they can post to instagram, studios to record podcasts, etc.

So Dabo may not be on board. But Clemson certainly is.

[Ship69]

I live in Columbus.

People in Columbus hate Ryan Day. All because he's lost twice to Michigan. If you think it's a small and vocal minority, it's not. He's a far better human being than Urban Meyer, but all those people care about is beating Michigan. Meyer was in a great situation where his program was clearly better than Michigan during his tenure. It took Harbaugh a long, long time to get that train on the tracks. But it's on the tracks now. Meyer also spent so much effort and energy playing to the crowd and fanbase pertaining to the rivalry. He could do that because outside of probably one season, there wasn't much doubt about who was going to win that game. I like when coaches don't just hand to you canned quotes, but Meyer tried way too hard to be a fan when he would talk about Michigan.

You hear Day try to say thinks in the media and take shots across the bow at Michigan and it frankly just doesn't work for him. He's in a different situation than Meyer was. The two programs now are playing on the same field. Ryan Day would be far better off just being who he is.

This is the fan base that loved Woody Hayes and all his antics for years, much as Indiana basketball fans were big Bobby Knight boosters over the year. Anything is fine for a lot of these people as long as you're winning. Just finished watching the "Last Chance U." series on Netflix. The third and fourth seasons featured the bombastic and profane coach Jason Brown at the Independence, Kans., Community College. Most of the team's followers, including the college president, were fine with putting up with Brown's stuff the first season when he was going 9-2, winning the league, and scoring the school's first-ever bowl win. But they soured on his antics very quickly when the team went down the tubes the next season. What it basically amounts to is another way of saying the ends justify the means. Football fan bases can be hypocritical. What a surprise.

[TheBigCat2192]

This is the fan base that loved Woody Hayes and all his antics for years, much as Indiana basketball fans were big Bobby Knight boosters over the year. Anything is fine for a lot of these people as long as you're winning. Just finished watching the "Last Chance U." series on Netflix. The third and fourth seasons featured the bombastic and profane coach Jason Brown at the Independence, Kans., Community College. Most of the team's followers, including the college president, were fine with putting up with Brown's stuff the first season when he was going 9-2, winning the league, and scoring the school's first-ever bowl win. But they soured on his antics very quickly when the team went down the tubes the next season. What it basically amounts to is another way of saying the ends justify the means. Football fan bases can be hypocritical. What a surprise.

When someone says the word “Wigger” the Independence coach is the first thing that comes to my mind. It’s astonishing that someone can look like more of a jerk than the East Mississippi CC guy from seasons 1 and 2 but somehow he managed to do it. I find it wild that players are willing to put up with so much to further their delusions that they’ll be going pro some day if they can just get their grades up/get some tape/rehab their image.

[IUP24]

This is the fan base that loved Woody Hayes and all his antics for years, much as Indiana basketball fans were big Bobby Knight boosters over the year. Anything is fine for a lot of these people as long as you're winning. Just finished watching the "Last Chance U." series on Netflix. The third and fourth seasons featured the bombastic and profane coach Jason Brown at the Independence, Kans., Community College. Most of the team's followers, including the college president, were fine with putting up with Brown's stuff the first season when he was going 9-2, winning the league, and scoring the school's first-ever bowl win. But they soured on his antics very quickly when the team went down the tubes the next season. What it basically amounts to is another way of saying the ends justify the means. Football fan bases can be hypocritical. What a surprise.

I just find it interesting how differently people view Meyer in Gainesville compared to how they view him in Columbus. And if you’ve not spoken at length to people down there about him, you don’t have the perspective. The comparison is odd. I think the locals there knew how many people he had in his back pocket within the town/city - and I don’t think that sat well with many. He “won” but he was an outsider. And it was clear he was selling his soul to the devil to do it.

And to be clear, Meyer wasn’t exactly “squeaky clean” in Columbus either. There were stories about his players and coaching staff at OSU too.

What I have always found odd is that those in Gainesville view all of his baggage as Urban’s fault. In Columbus, the people here were always seem to find somewhere else to place to the blame.

As a fan of football, I think Ryan Day is a terrific coach. I think he’s brilliant offensively and schematically (although your or I could coach that team with similar success given the resources and talent). He’s like 49-6. And people want him fired for two losses.

As a Pitt fan, if you told me that my team would go 11-1 with the lone loss being to WVU, I would sign in blood for that lol. I think it shows the arrogance of that fanbase.

[IUP24]

This is the fan base that loved Woody Hayes and all his antics for years, much as Indiana basketball fans were big Bobby Knight boosters over the year. Anything is fine for a lot of these people as long as you're winning. Just finished watching the "Last Chance U." series on Netflix. The third and fourth seasons featured the bombastic and profane coach Jason Brown at the Independence, Kans., Community College. Most of the team's followers, including the college president, were fine with putting up with Brown's stuff the first season when he was going 9-2, winning the league, and scoring the school's first-ever bowl win. But they soured on his antics very quickly when the team went down the tubes the next season. What it basically amounts to is another way of saying the ends justify the means. Football fan bases can be hypocritical. What a surprise.

I always enjoyed Last Chance U. I feel like the show is emblematic of what’s both good and bad about big time college athletics. On one hand, many of these individuals come from terrible homes or broken homes. Many were never pushed academically or how to handle when things don’t go right.

It shows what’s good too. Given the situations many of these young people are in growing up, many would have no opportunity to get a college education if it weren’t for sports.

That said, it shows how few actually make it. As you can clearly see in that show, there’s next to no shot for any of those players to make it. But they all think they will be getting a significant paycheck in the next 2-3 years to play football.

My overall point is that Last Chance U should be the subtle reminder to everyone what life and college is actually about. Scream and pound the table about paying college athletes. Laugh at those wanting to reign in NIL. The truth is when people do that, they are only focusing on the 1% or the Caleb Williams’ of the world. Because for every Caleb Williams, there’s 500 or more JUCO (or FBS) football players who grew up in a shack in Mississippi, whose only opportunity at a better life is by getting an education through college football. And 99% of those guys at any level won’t play after college.

Regardless of what anyone ever says, the college degree that you can earn by playing sports is infinitely more valuable than any NIL opportunity or small stipend/salary you can get because you play college football. Last Chance U is emblematic of that.

[Ship69]

I always enjoyed Last Chance U. I feel like the show is emblematic of what’s both good and bad about big time college athletics. On one hand, many of these individuals come from terrible homes or broken homes. Many were never pushed academically or how to handle when things don’t go right.

It shows what’s good too. Given the situations many of these young people are in growing up, many would have no opportunity to get a college education if it weren’t for sports.

That said, it shows how few actually make it. As you can clearly see in that show, there’s next to no shot for any of those players to make it. But they all think they will be getting a significant paycheck in the next 2-3 years to play football.

My overall point is that Last Chance U should be the subtle reminder to everyone what life and college is actually about. Scream and pound the table about paying college athletes. Laugh at those wanting to reign in NIL. The truth is when people do that, they are only focusing on the 1% or the Caleb Williams’ of the world. Because for every Caleb Williams, there’s 500 or more JUCO (or FBS) football players who grew up in a shack in Mississippi, who’s only opportunity at a better life is by getting an education through college football. And 99% of those guys at any level won’t play after college.

Regardless of what anyone ever says, the college degree that you can earn by playing sports is infinitely more valuable than any NIL opportunity or small stipend/salary you can get because you play college football. Last Chance U is emblematic of that.

Well what college certainly shouldn't be about is the football tail wagging the academic dog. But I'm under no illusions about it. I have no problem with kids from problem backgrounds getting a shot at a degree, but the academic experience depicted at the schools in "Last Chance U." was not impressive in most cases. So in Independence you're playing a kid who has a "B" and four "Fs" well into the term, and then all of a sudden he miraculously gets those grades up at the end of the term by taking a few "quizzes." It's hard to believe these guys will come out of school with much of an education. Minority kids have a much better chance of becoming a doctor, lawyer, or businessman than an NFL or NBA player, but we'd rather invest in the ones who play sports.